RT “Covers” the Shooting Down of MH17 by Adam Holland, The Interpreter, Institute of Modern Russia
Operating a fake news channel to promote state propaganda comes with considerable intrinsic problems and contradictions. Propaganda and news reporting have contrary purposes that propagandists carefully work to obscure by various means. That’s the art of propaganda: blurring the line between reality and BS, creating false equivalencies between the two, and implicitly arguing that the BS is superior. That’s easy for the propagandist when he can cherry-pick what he covers and restrict the information that enters into the conversation. But occasionally events overtake the propagandist’s ability to control the message. The mask slips, and he is revealed as being what he was all along: a craftsman of untruths.
That’s exactly what’s happened very suddenly and clearly yesterday at Russia’s RT news agency. As the wreckage of MH17 burned in the streets and yards of a small town in Donetsk Region in Ukraine, and as the bodies of its 298 passengers and crew lay where they were strewn, unburied and still warm, the people at RT and other Russian propaganda outlets rushed to fill the void between rapidly unfolding reality and the needs of those in power in Russia…
Also see:
Russia Today London Correspondent Resigns in Protest at 'Disrespect for Facts' Over Malaysian Plane Crash by William Turvill, Press Gazette
A Tweetbot Caught the Russian Gov't Editing Flight MH17 Wikipedia Info by Robert Sorokanich, Gizmodo
Hat Tip to Matt Armstrong and Crispin Burke.
Comments
<blockquote>Sarah Montague introduced this hugely significant story (with which - in my view - the programme should have led its bulletins) saying :’Senior American intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian involvement in the shooting down of the Malaysian airlines plane over Ukraine.’</blockquote>
Please tell us what other system other than a Russian-built SA-11 could have downed the aircraft at 33,000' leading to satellite imagery of a mid-air explosion and clear evidence of shrapnel damage in parts of the 777. Please tell me how a few drunk, untrained separatists managed to achieve the following without training, munitions, and equipment provided by Russia.
22 April An-30B damaged by ground fire, returned to base with one wounded
25 April Mi-8 accident or sniper on ground (also destroyed ground AN-2 Cub)
2 May Two Mi-24P Hinds downed and one Mi-8 Hip damaged, 5 killed, 1 captured
5 May Mi-24P downed by heavy machine gun fire and crashed in river with 3 rescued
<strong>29 May Mi-8T Hip downed with 12-14 dead, possible second Mi-8T also downed</strong>
3 June Mi-24P damaged but landed safely
3 June Su-25 possibly/claimed downed by MANPAD
4 June Three Mi-24P: 1 emergency landing, 1 hit by MANPAD, 1 by groundfire
5 June Mi-8 Hip damaged by gunfire
6 June An-30B downed (same one damaged on 22 April), 2 ejections
<strong>14 June IL-76 Transport downed killing 49</strong>
14 June Su-25 downed by separatist, pilot ejected
21 June Mi-8T Hip crashed, 3 dead
<strong>24 June Mi-8 Hip shot down, 9 dead</strong>
1 July possible Su-27 downed w/ ejections and 1 Su-25 damaged but returned to base
2 July Su-25 hit by MANPAD but shut down engine and returned to base
12 July Mi-24P and Su-25 downed
<strong>14 July An-26 transport downed by MANPAD or groundfire at 6500’ with 7 on board</strong>
16 July Two Su-25 downed or damaged after being engaged by a Russian jet or MANPAD
<strong>17 July Malaysian Air 777 downed by SA-11 fired from separatist-controlled areas</strong>
20 July An-26 possibly shot down by missile
23 July Two Su-25 downed by MANPADs near Ukraine/Russia border
Just because no evidence may exist that a Russian launched the missile doesn't mean there was no Russian involvement in this and other downings. How do you explain the Russian version of Twitter posting claiming another transport downing (an atrocity in itself) and then deleted after reality set in. How about the phone conversation recorded between the separatists and a Russian official? Would you disregard information such as this in making a diagnosis of what caused an illness?
What other plausible explanation is there? What precedent does this and Palestinian attacks of Ben Gurion airport set for future terrorists? What happens when terrorists get guided MANPADs and surface-to-surface missiles from Iran, Russia, China, Syria, or North Korea? I'm sure some will cite that we set the precedent in the 80's Afghanistan except that involved an insurgency of Afghans trying to kick out invading Soviets. In contrast, these current insurgencies are trying to seize or disrupt sovereign territory already owned for decades by the Ukraine and Israel.
From Peter Hitchens blog:
<em>Sarah Montague introduced this hugely significant story (with which - in my view - the programme should have led its bulletins) saying :’Senior American intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian involvement in the shooting down of the Malaysian airlines plane over Ukraine.’</em>
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk
And the things Victoria Nuland said on British television this past winter....
Funny that I should post his stuff around here but I agree with his commentary on the expansionary nature of the EU and its funny effects on the US, European countries, the UK.
Funny because isn't he a "we should have held onto the Empire or India and not let the Americans screw us" guy?
Or am I getting that wrong? All those trained Indian guys coming back from WWII, that insurgency would have made Vietnam look like patty-cake, maybe.
At any rate:
1. A divided Ukrainian society in many different ways....
2. Ethnic and language divisions - Russian, Ukranian.
3. Competing oligarchs.
4. EU compétition.
5. US, Germany, UK, France, etc. competition.
6. NATO as an expansionist bureaucracy as well as security alliance.
6. Proxy wars on multiple levels. It's three dimensional chess.
Any counterunconventional warfare, or diplomacy, or any military discussion, that looks only at Russian arms is just asking for the US to make the same mistakes we already have in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Why is it so hard for people to do this? The deaths on all sides are horrifying and heartbreaking. The poor Ukranians - look at Kashmir and look at Afghanistan before you decide to get in on that kind of game. You'll destroy your own nation and outsiders will do the "helping". What a tragedy all around.
Madhu--let's look at reality on the ground prior to the Crimea annexation in both eastern Ukraine and the Crimea.
1. was there in fact a total banning of the Russian language in either locations--no not really as Russian was the major language used in both
2. was that a major banning of all Russian TV channels and Russian radio/cable broadcasts---no not really
3. was there a banning of Russian newspapers distributed all over the Ukraine---no not really
4. did the Ukraine allow dual citizenship Russian/Ukrainian ---yes they did
5. did the Ukraine restrict travel between Russia and the eastern Ukraine or the Crimea--no it was open and visa free
6. was the Ukrainian Communist Party banned--no it was not
7. was there a joint FSB/SBU working agreements --yes there were
Then ask yourself when did all of the Russian arguments about the "oppressed ethnic Russians in the Ukraine start?
Then ask yourself when did the Russians start talking about defending ethnic Russians regardless of where they reside start?
Then look at the 15 or actually more promises made by Putin that he said he would deliver on and nothing happened.
Then look at the over 21 different alledged reasons the Russians have "floated" suggesting the Ukrainians shot down the plane.
Then look at just how many MRL and artillery IDF attacks have occurred from Russian soil into the Ukraine just in the last 10 days.
Then look at the Russian AF shot down of a Ukrainian SU 25 all recorded on voice intercepts.
Then look at the massive number of Russian Federation mercenary fighters that "somehow" made it through that "enhanced border security" that Putin told the West he was implementing.
Then look at the types of captured Russian weapons systems that do not even exist in the Ukrainian Army---yesterday they picked up the Russian thermobaric Shelm launcher.
Then look at the open source blogger photos/videos analysis which points directly to the Buk being under control of mercenaries inside the Ukraine.
Then look at the interview yesterday by a leading Donetsk irregular who also for the record stated another mercenary group in fact had a Buk in the shot down area and they sent it to Russia to avoid detection--and now he has buyers remorse.
Now sit back and tell me how can it be that Russian mercenaries are some how being "discriminated" against if they are killed inside the Ukraine?
I though Putin has been claiming the right of self determination for those inside the Ukraine--he did not mention that Russian Federation war tourists are also considered part of this "self determination" thing of his.
Madhu lay the politics aside and simply ask the question with opne eyes--what is occurring and why is it occurring?
Then ask the question who is and or the players on the ground inside the Ukraine and who does it benefit ---the US/EU/NATO and or Russia?
I have seen no EU/NATO/US troops on the ground and very little military support from them to the Ukraine but on the other side massive military assistance and fighters from Russia---wonder why?
this is a new definition of proxy war and it must be called that--BUT then again read the release new Russian military doctrine "New Generation Warfare" which is their new political strategy tying UW to political warfare to achieve their goals.
Check the first four points of that doctrine and you will find Russia has not left the playbook one single inch.
Then come back and say what you have written is still your opinion.
Does the Washington Post read this site or the comments here? Ha ha, just kidding.
Today, the Washington "State Department" Post has an article on Russia's proxies in Ukraine entitled "Putin's Grand Strategy is Failing", Monkeyblog.
Does the Washington Post/State Department really want to go down this path in argumentation? Because State's inherent Russophobia is very different from its historic Pakistanophilia (as a client state, as a source of post-government income of some, and for its elites) and this had an adverse effect on our Afghanistan campaign, India relations, etc.
In Afghanistan, both external proxies and bad governance by Karzai are supposed to be problems, but when it comes to Ukraine the cozy relationships between Washington, Urkanian oligarchs, genuine western-oriented democratizers, and so on, is easily deleted from the proxy situation.
How we Americans took on the NATOist and Atlanticists attitudes and habits of their elites, while their elites took on bad habits of ours. The shared cultures that have developed are a bit toxic, no? I think it's the difference in my training and that of the PhD intellectual class that makes it such a culture clash between me and so much of what I read around here. If someone smokes, and the smoking causes a cancer, for me to point out that smoking causes cancer doesn't mean that I am morally condemning a patient. So too, when I point out the their are multiple factors to be considered in the proxy war in Ukraine.
The Indians must be rolling their eyes at the suggestion that they have double standards on proxies when the US and the UK and NATO have aided and abetted Pakistani proxies for, well, ever. Perhaps without meaning to, but for sure their democracy promotion in South Asia has hurt a lot of people.
Violating sovereignty comes in flavors and shades and arming proxies is the most egregious. Doesn't mean lesser forms of involvement doesn't disturb societies too, and prevent healthy balances.
Brennan, the Kiev offensives and the Pakistani Army offensives. Is it a good thing for our State Department and CIA to push so hard internally in societies, dear wonderful WaPo? I should just post this at their site but I am too naturally indolent....I like to blame having MS but sometimes it is just a convenient excuse. Or maybe not. It's sort of a sonofabitch to deal with, at times. Probably one reason I am fascinated with the physically strong, surely some of the weird vibe the military gets from civilians is fascination which is not entirely healthy.
I think we would be wise, as Madhu suggests, to focus on the big picture here.
For example:
a. The drive by the expansionist West to transform other states and societies more along modern western political, economic and social lines and
b. The drive by such nations as China, Russia, Pakistan and Iran to preclude/contain/roll back such Western expansionist efforts/attempts.
Thus, within this reverse Cold War context to view -- not only contemporary events in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc., -- but also the current situation in the Ukraine.
Maqdhu---in some ways I feel actually sorry for Putin who is driven by a desire to roll back the failures he sees in the Soviet Union from 1995.
He then forms a new doctrine of self determination built on language, calls out the dogs of war and provides irregulars/war tourists and heavy weapons into the Ukraine in the hope of undercutting the West and keeping the Ukraine outside of Europe.
Then along comes a civilian aircraft with 298 people and then 298 bodies later Putin is in deep over his head.
The Russian irregulars are in fact being slowly but surely pushed back and defeated and Putin's hardliners want to march the troops in. His liberal block of oligarchs are saying if the sanctions hit harder and they are actually biting hard now the Russian economy will collapse on it's own within six months.
Technically speaking Russia is already at war with the Ukraine if you count the six major attacks from Russian soil on it--but now with the irregulars losing, the crash site pressing him hard and the economy on a lifeline---which way does he go.
IMHO---he is trending toward open war with marching the troops he is just looking for an excuse and the crash is not helping him find one that makes sense to the West.
And he is really angry at the Ukrainian President for actually out maneuvering him and placing the irregulars on the road to defeat---something he though initially impossible when he started this gamble called the Ukraine.
Notice just how easy it is to define a problem---the problem with world politics is that everyone wants to make it hard when it is really not that hard to understand.
As you state ---it is getting the facts and again depending on who defines them facts to at least debate the issues that is the hardest to do.
It is impossible to get good numbers because so much disinformation exists on both sides. There is Ukranian propaganda, Russian propaganda, American propaganda, and so on.
At times I feel that I've graduated from this site and many others that I've read over the years. Certainly not on strictly military matters, but for sure on the difference between what the publics are being told versus the on-the-ground reality. Outlaw, things are different in the States from Germany, I wager. The same hysteria that occurred prior to Iraq in 2002/3 and as last year for Syria is happening again. What I cannot understand is why so many Americans keep buying the sell job, and why some people seem to need America eternally at odds with an enemy on an emotional and psychological level.
We will find that the rest of the world will move away from us, will do anything to escape our banks, our currency, our hegemony, anything to keep away from the US because we are unpredictable and war is our first response to everything when we don't get our way.
This is a dangerous game. It is backfiring but what is a nobody like me to do? I can call politicians offices but they don't care about someone like me and the military seems to be filled with people--at least at the higher levels--that care more for their fantasies than protecting our nation.
Ever thus, I suppose. It is strange, the psychological need for an enemy. Why can't some people be happy without the US fighting a war somewhere? Not you Outlaw, but I can't tell you how many blogs seem to be filled with armchair warriors that fill up their little lives with a sense of adventure by viewing war as some kind of entertainment. It's sad, really. And the intellectual quality on many other sites I read has seriously deteriorated.
Mahdu---reference the Ukrainian refugee problem--Russia claims one number and the Ukrainians claim another---split it in the middle and they are rather low for the amount of fighting if you ask me.
Ukrainians are tending to stay put because they are afraid of looting of their property as the irregulars have been doing.
Either a comment of mine disappeared into the "system" or somehow it was deemed offensive. I can't think why, but okay.
This incident is being used in many ways by different parties based on their own interests in the proxy war between Russia on the one hand, and the US/EU/NATO on the other- with all of the local fault-lines being exacerbated and local brokers involved for their own reasons. I don't mean to minimize local factors.
I think the administration is using this incident to build a case for increased sanctions toward Russia and to pressure other European nations. In that case, the case will be built around the perceived needs as opposed to what might really be happening.
I hear almost nothing around here on the refugee crisis caused by the Kiev offensive in the East and its humanitarian ramifications. As with Afghanistan, we have the larger proxy war, the local regional ramifications (just what are various other Eastern European countries doing in terms of their intelligence in that part of the world?), and the Ukrainian internal governance struggles. To focus only on Putin blinds us to the complicated nature of the situation, just as focusing only on the US, or the Pakistani Army or Karzai or the Taliban causes us a problem when all factors and narratives must be considered.
Our system cannot do multifactorial for some reason.
We all see what Putin is saying and we all see the crude and increasingly counterproductive efforts of the rather rickety Russian propaganda machine. They don't seem to be convincing anyone outside the conspiracy theory fringe. Why should the US play the propaganda game when the media are already playing it for them? The case is so obvious that it sells itself; putting too much effort into a hard sell doesn't enhance credibility, it diminishes credibility.
BW/Dayuhan---this is part of the game that we are not even in the game on---Putin has offered multiple times since the shot down to assist in the investigation and stated public that that must be an open and thorough one naturally to place the blame on the Ukraine but then these SBU intercepts released today indicate;
1. Moscow is in touch with the terrorists which they have repeatedly stated they are not and
2. they are trying to cover up evidence and the black boxes
If we were in the game then we could and should release supporting voice intercepts that we both know the NSA has.
Listen to the intercepts and then ask the simply question---we should really believe anything coming from Putin?
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ssu-356979.html
Militant groups of self-proclaimed Donbas People's Republic might already be in possession of at least two Malaysia Airlines Boeing's flight recorders and are keen to get ahold of all the evidence from its crash site, citing "interest" from Moscow. The conversation shows that the separatists are intent on obstructing an international investigation under way.
The alleged intercepted phone conversations are between Oleksandr Khodakovskyi, commander of the Kremlin-backed separatists' Vostok Battalion and two militants identified only by their first names. The conversations show that the militants working at the site of deadly air crash of Malaysia Airlines Fight MH17 are given a task of getting ahold of all the evidence they can locate and keeping it away from anyone else. The ill-fated flight from Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur flight on July 17 crashed after a missile struck it from separatist-held territory, killing almost 300 civilians
At one point during the conversation, Khodakovskiy points out that two "black boxes" have already been obtained by a militant nicknamed Khmuryi, identified in the conversation as the head of intelligence of Igor Girkin (Strelkov), DNR's military commander.
The preliminary results of investigations conducted by both U.S. and Ukrainian authorities show that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing was shot by a surface to air missile fired from the territory controlled by Russian-backed sepaparatists.
The primary focus is on "black boxes," Khodakovskyi instructs a militant named Andriy during the alleged phone conversation, but the rest of the evidence is no less important.
"All that you find must not come into someone else's hands," he said.
Madhu---another example of the Russian information war even attempting to control the narrative on Wikipedia that the Ukrainians shot down the airliner.
Remember @CongressEdits, the tweetbot that alerts whenever a Wikipedia article is edited from a government IP address? There's a Russian version now, and it just uncovered some pretty drastic edits to a Wikipedia article that mentions Flight MH17, originating from a Russian government IP address.
As The Telegraph reports, @RuGovEdits tweeted that a computer user from within the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VHTRK) edited the Russian-language version of the Wikipedia entry about the Malaysian Airlines passenger jet shot down over Ukraine yesterday.
The original version of the Wikipedia article listing civil aviation accidents stated that MH17 had been shot down "by terrorists of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic with Buk system missiles, which the terrorists received from the Russian Federation." Emphasis added.
The edits originating from the government-owned computer changed the article to read "the plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers". Again, emphasis added.
@RuGovEdits alerted the public with a tweet that says (translated): "Wikipedia article List of aircraft accidents in civil aviation has been edited by RTR [another name for VGTRK]".
If @RuGovEdits is to be trusted (and considering the Wiki-twitterbot code is widely available on Github, it probably can be), it certainly seems like someone within the Russian government is working to hide the widely-held theory that Russian weapons were used to bring down MH17. But while Wikipedia might be malleable, it's also transparent. [The Telegraph via Amanda Zamora]
I think you overrate the impact and threat of the Russian propaganda effort. Certainly it's there for all to see, but quantity and quality are two very different things, and much of what comes out of Russia is almost comically inept (RT is a prime example). It's hard to imagine it convincing anyone who isn't already immersed in the Kool-Aid, and in the long run it probably does them more harm than good. Anyone who has ever worked with social media marketing knows that volume of posts and selling the product are not at all the same thing... yes, they have the volume, but are they selling the product?
I see no point in the US or "the West" trying to match obvious propaganda with equally obvious propaganda when the natural emergence of facts will make the point for them, and while the other side is making such a self-defeating mess of their own propaganda effort.
BW--ask the Russian population or for that matter the Crimea or eastern Ukraine if the game that the Russian media is in is not important to them in holding/molding their opinions in a particular direction and for controlling the narrative that Russia is pushing everyday even since the downing.
They are pushing extremely hard to regain that narrative since the downing.
They have issued a total of 14 different stories concerning the downing and used 10 different experts in their articles.
Sorry even Fox does not go that mile as they are stuck with the same standard talking heads
RT is just a speed bump in the massive worldwide information war that Russia is using---over on the Ukraine information war thread I linked to a wall chart built by the Ukrainians and one would be surprised how many individuals and organizations in the US support the Russian messaging and it is not Fox.
I was largely speaking of news as a means to influence a population. While the population might be different, Fox and RT have a lot in common in that regard. Do you really think there are policy makers in the US and Europe that are thinking, "Gee, these RT news reports are certainly different. I wonder what is going on." I would suggest to you that everyone is well aware of the what RT is used for. It isn't some mind blowing game we don't understand nor is it a game that we don't factor into our decision making.
BW/Dayuhan---Fox News really ---do you think Fox News is influencing Europe as it is not even carried by a bulk of the sat and cable companies over here and it is for the hearts and minds of Europe that is the focus of the Russian information war that is ongoing. It is also focused on the Russian population for their hearts and minds and for Putin's poll numbers
You might influence a number of the US military as Fox is carried on AFN but again not many Europeans can even get AFN.
Just a note---can you explain to me the widely viewed and high numbers of US viewers of the RT (Russian Today) which is in fact broadcasting the Russian information war message daily into the homes of Americans 24X7---come on we are not even in the game.
Not in the game means---if we the US have such a massive GMTI ISR asset capability, overhead and airborne ISR capacity built in the fight for chasing jhadi's and UBL tell me we did not catch via the CIA and NSA and yes even DIA the missile launch signature, the missile path and type of missile and more importantly the launch location.
Then tell me in the year of Snowdon the NSA does not a massive amounts of intercepted cell calls between Russia and the Ukraine and inside the Ukraine---because if we do not have them then the NSA is a complete waste of the taxpayers money and a total failure in the world of conventional/UW warfare.
Call a massive Obama worldwide teleconference at the correct European time and literally lay out the timeline of the shot down complete with the GMTI data of the Buks as they moved back into Russia together with the online photos and overhead info and the voice intercepts and see just how quickly European opinion shifts to a negative as it is shifting now but because of the killing of 298 including 80 children---not because we have done anything on our part.
It seems the Ukrainian SBU with it's limited money is doing a far better job of it than all of the American IC put together with what over 15B in a annual budgets and the SBU is begging for money just to pay their officers---don't you think?
The truth to outside viewers ie Europeans especially after the downing of the airliner is indeed a powerful weapon if backed up with facts--so where is the US in broadcasting the true facts?
That is the game and we are not even in the game.
Madhu---here is the core problem about the "truth".
Russia has as does the US the abilities to rack/stack and observe virtually world wide all missile launches down to even MANPADs via radar, overhead and can back track those launches and identify the missile involved.
By the way I am betting that Obama has the definitive answer and is waiting to use it if Russia/Putin does not step up and take responsibility for the downing.
Today the Russian Defense demanded that the Ukrainians release all of their AD information so the world could see the "Ukrainians" shot down the airliner.
17.08 Uhr: Moskau fordert von der Ukraine die Offenlegung aller militärischen Daten bezüglich ihrer Luftabwehr im Konfliktgebiet. Die Führung in Kiew müsse detailliert Einblick gewähren, wo und wie die Ukraine Boden-Luft- und Luft-Luft-Raketen verwende, sagt Russlands Vizeverteidigungsminister Anatoli Antonow dem TV-Sender Rossija-24. Die entscheidende Frage sei: „Was geschah im Luftraum über der Ukraine und was müssen wir tun, damit so etwas nicht noch einem passiert.“
This is the tenth and still counting attempt by the Russian government in the last 72 hours and the Russian media to control the shot down narrative---I have never seen this much misinformation activity in over 40 years of being in Europe.
Here is the 64 dollar question---if the Russians are so absolutely sure then release their own recordings of the actual AD situation on the day before, the day of and for the entire day of the shot down to the world to see and review.
That would kill in a heartbeat any accusations against the Russians---but wait they are not even offering so what does that tell us?
Want to bet they never offer it to the world just as they refused for days to admit the shot down of KAL007--then they blamed the US military for it.
Either they have a really poor AD country wide defense or in fact they know exactly who shot it down---right?
And by the way the US is truly not a participant in this massive Russian led information war---compared to what the Russians are doing daily the Americans a simply still in kindergarten.
We are light years away for carrying out daily what the Russians are pulling off in all the different forms of media out there that can be influenced.
Everyone is in on the game and has been for some time now. In the West, vested interests float their own narratives via media, as when you noted Victoria Nuland's behavior toward the EU. None of this makes me particularly interested in false Russian narratives, either. The US could show leadership by insisting on a ceasefire from all sides and inviting in nuetral investigators but the President is too weak to withstand the heat or his own terrible advisors. I bet the CIA has given terrible advice on targeting eastern ukraine and its 'terrorists, just like in the Pak. The raiding mentality vs closing borders, etc.
Then Madhu you seem to not fully understand the vicious information war that is ongoing even here at SWJ and it has gotten worse the last 72 hours.
There have been in the last 72 hours at least seven different stories floated alone on Russian TV concerning Ukrainian involvement in the shot down---when one story seemed to not make the news cycle Russian TV just cranked out another.
To be honest the West is not even in the game so I am not sure why you would trust the West because they are way behind the power curve---but boy have some of the net bloggers been able to geo locate critical photos/videos and correlate them to actual events on the ground and boy have the voice intercepts been interesting.
On the OSINT side they are outdoing even doing the CIA/NSA as both these agencies have not released a single official piece of data.
Gee, for some reason I have an urge to go read about ngos and gongos and democracy promotion. (This source recommends the Lantos Institute. Funny story on that and the Modi visa denial. After the election, I did a little researching. Good intentions, badly executed.)
Terrible human tragedy. What a heartbreak. Those poor people and their families. Russian propaganda has been terrible.
But I no longer trust many in our Western system to tell the truth either. Note, I am not making an equivalency argument between systems but that too many have an agenda. Who does a person trust for simple, factual information?