Small Wars Journal

COIN Is a Proven Failure

Mon, 12/01/2014 - 1:31pm

COIN Is a Proven Failure by LTC Daniel L. Davis, The American Conservative

In late October MSNBC’s Ronan Farrow asked retired Army Lt. Col. John Nagl to give viewers a deeper understanding of the fight between the Islamic State (ISIS) and Kurdish fighters around Kobane. Widely credited with “writing the book” on successful counterinsurgency (COIN) operations, Mr. Nagl said, “we’ve got 1,500 guys on the ground, but they’re not as far forward as they need to be to make a real, immediate impact on the battlefield.” He and a number of COIN experts argue that along with 15,000 U.S. ground troops, Iraqi, Kurdish, and Syrian rebel soldiers can defeat ISIS. Before making any decisions, American leaders should first consider this: despite what is often claimed by a host of advocates, the COIN theories upon which these recommendations are based were in fact demonstrable failures in both Afghanistan and Iraq. We must not sacrifice any more American lives and harm American interests any further by acting on theories that are likely to fail again…

Read on.

Comments

Bill C.

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 5:43pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

The Kilcullen quotes that you may be looking for are possibly these -- which are found at the top of Page 3 of his "Counterinsurgency Redux:"

"Politically, in many cases today, the counterinsurgent represents revolutionary change, while the insurgent fights to preserve the status quo of ungoverned spaces, or to repel an occupier — a political relationship opposite to that envisaged in classical counterinsurgency. Pakistan’s campaign in Waziristan since 2003 exemplifies this. The enemy includes al-Qa’ida (AQ) linked extremists and Taliban, but also local tribesmen fighting to preserve their traditional culture against 21st century encroachment. The problem of weaning these fighters away from extremist sponsors, while simultaneously supporting modernization, does somewhat resemble pacification in traditional counterinsurgency. But it also echoes colonial campaigns, and includes entirely new elements arising from the effects of globalization."

(Here Kilcullen's "classical counterinsurgency" being that of the Cold War Era and, thus, different from the "classic counterinsurgency" as you and I have described it [to wit: the counterinsurgency that occurs before the Cold War.] Distinction: During the Cold War, it was the Soviet and Chinese communists -- espousing, referring to and relying on their version of "universal values" -- who moved to force the indigenous people to adopt their alien and profane way of life. Whereas before the Cold War -- and now after it again today -- it was/is the West that is responsible for these such theories and these such actions.)

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/uscoin/counterinsurgency_redux.pdf

Here are some of my May 2013 thoughts along the lines of Kilcullen's paragraph above:

by Bill C. | May 23, 2013 - 7:30pm reply

"Kilcullen suggests (in his "Counterinsurgency Redux") that we must go back before the Cold War and its "wars of national liberation" (1944 to about 1982) and before the theorists from this period that we see so prominently listed in our current counterinsurgency manual (David Galula, Robert Thompson, Frank Kitson, Bernard Fall, Mao Zedong, Che Guevara and Vo Nguyen Giap).

Why?

Because Kilcullen suggests that the insurgents that we are fighting against today do not fight -- as those in the Cold War did -- to achieve "revolutionary change."

Rather, he suggests, today's insurgents -- like those in colonial days -- fight to retain the status quo and to RESIST "revolutionary change" (the radical alteration of their political, economic and social life that the foreign powers hope to bring about).

Given this fundamental similarity -- re: our mission today and that of the earlier colonizers (to wit: to bring about radical and revolutionary change to the way of life and way of governance of others) -- Kilcullen seems to suggest that we may be better served by looking to the colonial period for guidance and to theorists from this period such as C. E. Callwell and Louis Lyautey.

Is Kilcullen's point well made?"

http://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/is-the-war-on-terrorism-over-long-…

thedrosophil

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 4:38pm

In reply to by Bill C.

Bill C: There is a quote somewhere, I believe it's by Colonel Kilcullen but I've only ever seen it in a lecture slide and been unable to find an original citation, that says that sometimes it is the counterinsurgent who will be the revolutionary in a given conflict.

With respect to Dhofar, my interpretation is that both the communists of the PFLOAG/PFLO and the Anglo-Omani force were revolutionaries. You're correct that the transformative agenda of the communists was likely more ambitious than that of the counterinsurgent force, but the idea of reliable wells, medical and veterinary care, education, and the dissemination of information was sufficiently revolutionary that no Dhofari (or Omani, for that matter) has ever lived their life the same way they did prior to 1970.

Afghanistan and Iraq are difficult cases to gauge, because although the counterinsurgent forces dispatched to both countries since 2001 have been ambitious in their missions to change both nations, it's important to acknowledge what was going on before they arrived. ISAF ousted an unpopular Taliban government that had enacted unpopular (and novel) restrictions that ran contrary to many Afghan traditions. The agenda in Iraq was slightly less revolutionary because Iraq was already living in the twentieth century when the invasion force arrived. As I've mentioned before, I believe that both cases suffered (Afghanistan moreso than Iraq) because the timelines were too ambitious, owing mostly to artificial constraints (election cycles and international fatigue being the big ones).

So, the answer to your final question is that I don't actually think that Dhofar is as fundamentally different as it may appear at first glance; my impression has always been that those "fundamental" differences are mostly cosmetic upon closer inspection. I think there's certainly a question of scope, as Dhofar's population and geographic extent were smaller than Afghanistan or Iraq (though I would treat Dhofar as analogous to an Anbar or a Helmand - I spent several paragraphs on that dissertation on this topic, so I won't recreate that discussion here). But I don't think that negates the comparison - I think that the Anglo-Omani agenda was plenty revolutionary relative to that of the PFLOAG/PFLO. I think that Dhofar is particularly apt in comparison to Afghanistan, but also relevant to assessing the strengths and weaknesses of MNF-I's campaign in Iraq.

thedrosophil:

I have done some early reading, as you suggested, re: the Dhofar Insurgency.

The most important difference that I have noted so far, re: the Dhofar Insurgency then and our current insurgencies today, is that:

a. With the Dhofar Insurgency, it was the communists insurgents who sought to transform the state and societies (of Dhofar) more along alien and essentially profane lines (to wit: more along communist political, economic and social lines). This unpopular move allowing the British to win over much of the population -- and, indeed, win over many of the insurgents -- by appealing to their conservative and religious heart-strings.

b. Whereas today, and with our current insurgencies in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, it is we westerners who have sought to unnaturally transform the way of life and way of governance of these Muslim populations; in these cases, more along the equally alien and profane lines of modern western civilization. This providing that it is the insurgents, today, who have been able to (1) appeal to the conservative/religious heart-strings of the people and (2) win over much of the population to their side.

Given this fundamental difference re: the Dhofar Insurgency (the West is seen as the good guy/a friend/the defender of conservative causes) and our current insurgencies (the West is seen as the bad guy/the enemy/the destroyer of traditional ways of life), then is the Dhofar Insurgency really a very good model for us to look to; re: how we might solve our insurgency problems today?

Outlaw 09

Fri, 12/05/2014 - 5:14am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

There is though a particular over used buzz word "ecosystem" that in fact makes total sense when one is searching for commonalities across any number of events and their supporting populations.

For Mao it was the fish in the ocean comparison.

Che forgot this and paid dearly for forgetting it.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 4:55pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Well stated:

QUOTE:
Or, one can seek to attain a "simple" understanding, one that takes into account all of the varied complexities of a problem, but that seeks to understand the fundamental aspects that are largely common to all. After all, every snowflake is different as well, yet every snowflake requires the same ingredients, conditions and process to form. So equally, at a fundamental level, every snowflake is the same.
UNQUOTE:

In the IT world we call this "people, processes, tools".

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 3:21pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

One can be a reductionist and get to "simplistic" positions. An example of this is the frequently stated position that "war is war."

The opposite approach is to play the complexity card and say "every insurgency is different" and then create convoluted definitions such as "insurgency is a complex form of violent irregular warfare."

Or, one can seek to attain a "simple" understanding, one that takes into account all of the varied complexities of a problem, but that seeks to understand the fundamental aspects that are largely common to all. After all, every snowflake is different as well, yet every snowflake requires the same ingredients, conditions and process to form. So equally, at a fundamental level, every snowflake is the same.

Insurgency can be violent or non-violent, as that is a tactical choice and does not affect the fundamental nature of the problem either way.

Insurgency can be warfare if born of a resistance, or it can be a form of civil emergency if born of a revolution.

So the military definition runs into some serious problems, leading us to end up fighting our doctrine and definitions rather than actually working to resolve the problem before us.

But every insurgency is internal or it is not insurgency. (granted, foreign fighters and supporters are typically brought in, but that only changes the character, not the nature of the matter).

Every insurgency is political in primary purpose. If it is for profit exploiting some lucrative illicit market it is a very different problem as it requires a very different solution; even if that for profit activity grows so large as to disrupt and challenge governance as well.

Every insurgency is rooted in some domestic population. If it is just a disgruntled segment of government acting to overthrow the regime it is a Coup, which again requires a very different solution than a movement rooted in some segment of the population.

Lastly, it is illegal. If legal it wouldn't be a problem at all. Much that is legal in the US is insurgency in countries where effective legal opportunities to influence government do not exist.

So, fundamentally insurgency must have these four components, and if it does not, it is something else requiring a solution other than COIN to resolve.

Now, how these things manifest in any particular case will vary widely. After all, every insurgency is different. We must understand the difference to design and implement effective approaches - but we must understand the fundamental commonalities so that we know what it is that actually needs to be resolved.

But if I missed something let me know, as I want this concept to be as accurate and valuable as possible.

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 3:23pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Duplicate.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:52pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

See again one of the core mistakes with COIN is the ability or lack of ability to simplify the problem set---we Americans somehow think that by defining the problem as "complex" with all kinds of explanations when in fact the problem set is most times relatively straight forward--- is somehow a "sign" of super intelligence,or being an expert and or say a SME.

In 2005, the military was groping for the concept of how was the insurgency structured because if one knows the approximate structure then one can define the approximate number of fighters---in a little over four months I saw six different calculations of fighter numbers and if one knew the prisoner numbers they alone were far more than the numbers of fighters not captured that were being circulated by MNF-I.

When I stumbled onto the actual structure via a debrief it was so simple and straight forward but no one wanted to believe it and it provided a maximum of opsec for a guerrilla movement--actually something we in the SF guerrilla warfare days instantly recognized--and that was why it was initially not accepted---no one had the inherent guerrilla warfare experience of the 60/70's

We see the same problem today--no one fully understands the exact numbers of fighters and those coming in from outside Iraq and Syria.

Put 15 analysts into a room and you will get 15 answers.

But again back to the comment of yours---why does everything have to be so complex when it is not?

thedrosophil

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:31pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

So your claim is that "the only real difference between revolutionary insurgency and democracy is legality", based upon four data points? Sorry, I can't make that leap, I think you've critically oversimplified the argument.

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:12pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Consider this in regards to revolutionary insurgency:

Democracy is internal, populace-based, legal, and political in purpose

Insurgency is internal, populace-based, illegal and political in purpose

Thus, once boiled down to fundamental elements the only real difference between revolutionary insurgency and democracy is legality.

But often this illegal politics gets war-like messy and the military gets called in and thinks about and treats it as a form of warfare...

Resistance insurgency is another animal altogether, it is best thought of as a continuation of warfare once the government and military are defeated by some foreign foe and only the people remain in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq there have been a mix of both lines of causation, and many insurgents are motivated by a bit of both. No one, however wears a t-shirt that says why they are in the fight. But when we understand the fundamentals of the problem better we can in turn make better policy decisions and design more effective campaigns.

But great factual awareness and tactical target lists branded as "policy" will not get us to where we need to be.

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:11pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Consider this in regards to revolutionary insurgency:

Democracy is internal, populace-based, legal, and political in purpose

Insurgency is internal, populace-based, illegal and political in purpose

Thus, once boiled down to fundamental elements the only real difference between revolutionary insurgency and democracy is legality.

But often this illegal politics gets war-like messy and the military gets called in and thinks about and treats it as a form of warfare...

Resistance insurgency is another animal altogether, it is best thought of as a continuation of warfare once the government and military are defeated by some foreign foe and only the people remain in the fight.

In places like Afghanistan and Iraq there have been a mix of both lines of causation, and many insurgents are motivated by a bit of both. No one, however wears a t-shirt that says why they are in the fight. But when we understand the fundamentals of the problem better we can in turn make better policy decisions and design more effective campaigns.

But great factual awareness and tactical target lists branded as "policy" will not get us to where we need to be.

thedrosophil

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 12:45pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Robert: This statement...

<BLOCKQUOTE>I think we are more accurate when we say that our COIN doctrine is horribly flawed, and that our operations conducted in the context of that doctrine have proven the failure of that doctrine.</BLOCKQUOTE>

... is a much clearer and more productive synopsis than the blanked statement that "COIN is a proven failure". That said, I think it requires two additional qualifications (and I apologize if I sound like a broken record on this):

1) For the most part, American COIN doctrine bears little resemblance to established COIN theory and/or doctrine that has proved successful in a variety of historical conflicts.

2) For the most part, recent American operations have not actually implemented either accepted COIN theory/doctrine or the improvised American COIN doctrine at all.

As such, neither Afghanistan, nor Iraq, nor other recent operations of a more clandestine nature actually prove that COIN theory/doctrine (or even America's flawed COIN version) are failures, because 1) non-American COIN doctrines have withstood testing in the field, and 2) none of those conflicts have actually implemented those tried and tested COIN doctrines, and 3) American COIN doctrine has yet to undergo such testing, owing to a variety of factors that some have already elucidated.

I also think that your point about American leaders not understanding the nature of insurgency is an interesting one, though I'm not sure I agree that that's what actually happened. I think that a great deal of scholarship and resources were invested in understanding insurgency as a phenomenon, historical insurgency case studies, and the local insurgencies in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere. The breakdown, then, resulted from a poor implementation of established COIN best practices, which itself stemmed from both a wilful ignorance of accepted COIN methodology and a failure to implement the improvised COIN doctrine following its circulation and socialization in late 2006 and early 2007.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:13pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Am going out on a limb---I caught the tactical shift as well--but since 2003 we meaning the decision makers ie military and national command authority seem to think that strategy has to be implemented thus it shifts to being tactical and they think they are in fact carrying out a strategy--the borders between the two have been merged.

If one looks a the eight phases of the new Russian doctrine of New Generation Warfare basically a UW blueprint---it stays solidly strategic allowing the decision makers on the military and intelligence side the freedom of movement that they freely need if necessary and at the same time it allows the political side the options of scaling up and or down as it reacts to the targeted population/population's government actions.

Now this is something that might hurt when said---the Russian UW strategy is actually the perfect form of the often stated US "mission command" meaning when the senior Russian political decision makers decide to use the strategy and set the end state---the other elements designated to carry it out have total freedom of movement to make it happen with only the political decision maker riding high side to ensure all are headed in the right direction.

Basically a strategic strategy with a built in scalable tactical element.

David was correct when he said our current UW strategy is actually tactical in nature---now that ties both into and explains the Brookings slant.

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 12:50pm

In reply to by Outlaw 09

Wow, that was profoundly disappointing. A great deal of good information, but then it all concludes in a tactical target list for attacking the symptom that ISIL is framed as "Policy Recommendations."

This is typical of the threat-centric, Intel-think that has dominated what we pass off as "Strategy" or "Policy" in regards to these populace-based threats.

Most of it was pretty good, but his logic train totally jumped the tracks from strategic understanding right back into tactical slaps at the symptoms once he got to his recommendations.

The fundamental problem lies in the nature of the relationships between the rapidly evolving perceptions and expectations of governance among the populations of the middle east and the autocratic, stagnant governments of the middle east. External actors like AQ and internal actors like IS are exploiting those conditions. The West gets sucked into it all when we overly support the governments in their efforts to stay the same due to our perception that our own interests are best served by sustaining the status quo where we are tight with the government, or overthrowing the government when they dare to reject our advances.

Attacking the symptoms as our primary COA makes as much sense as fire fighters attacking the smoke as their primary effort for putting out a fire. It is common knowledge that smokes kills the most people, and that the flames are the most destructive by products of fire - but that fire itself is a combination of fuel, heat and oxygen; requiring a catalyst to set in motion and often enhanced by some sort of accelerant. Fire fighters focus on separating or removing the elements, they do not attack the by products.

What are the elements of populace-based conflicts? Violent insurgency and terrorism are the flames; Leadership groups like AQ, MB and IS are the smoke; ideology is the accelerant; any manner of events can be the catalyst - but until we get smarter about understanding and addressing the fundamental elements of what the respective "fuel-heat-oxygen" is we will continue to flounder in our efforts.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 12:17pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Robert--appears that now finally even Brookings is going back and reassessing the development of first QJBR, then AQI, and now IS.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports2/2014/12/profiling-islamic-st…?

PART I – 15 YEARS OF EVOLUTION
1999-2003: From Jordan to Afghanistan
2003-04: Initiating Iraq insurgency
2004-06: Iraq consolidation, Al-Qaeda tensions
2007-09: Governance failure & the Sahwa
2009-2011: Restructuring & Recovery
2011-present: Syria, Iraq, Al-Qaeda & a Caliphate

PART II – THE ISLAMIC STATE TODAY
Military Strategy
Internal Policy
Governance

PART III – OUTLOOK
Objectives: Syria & Iraq
Regional Objectives
Foreign Fighter Blowback?
Policy Recommendations

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 11:14am

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Amen---it has been as you correctly often mention here---all about the rule of law and the concept of good governance and how the targeted population views those two things vs how the government handles both of them in relationship to that specific population.

And I would throw in the world is and has been so interconnected even in 1776 that what appears to be new in a specific part of the globe can be found in another part of the globe--just tailored to the population involved.

Therefore a strategy is possible, but it has to be generically so designed that one can then understand the various populations of the world and their drivers and then tailor the strategy.

Robert C. Jones

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 9:43am

I think we are more accurate when we say that our COIN doctrine is horribly flawed, and that our operations conducted in the context of that doctrine have proven the failure of that doctrine.

There are many layers to why our COIN doctrine is a failure, and it can not all be lain at the feet of those who rose to fame promoting the highly celebrated doctrine driving us to where we are now (Gen Petreaus, Dr. Nagl, Dr. Kilcullen, etc) - but they still believe in and promote those concepts, so that should be noted as well.

The problem begins with our understanding of insurgency itself. One cannot counter insurgency until one first understands what insurgency is in general, what the variations of insurgency are based on critical, rather superficial critiera, and what type or blend of insurgency one is actually dealing with in any particular time and place.

The problem gets deeper when we take the perspective that the COIN mission one conducts domestically is the same as the COIN mission one conducts in the support of someone else. This may seem a fine point, but it is fundamental to why host nations struggle to develop legitimacy in the eyes of their populations and why they collapse so rapidly once we withdraw our support. Imagine if instead we were talking about how to discipline one's children, and we believed ourselves as parents to be experts in how we discipline our children. Then the neighbor has a problem with their children they cannot solve (in our opinion compared to what we think "right" looks like, and clearly lacks the capacity to discipline them correctly (again, in our opinion and based on our perspective). So we go next doors and begin to discipline their children for them. We have them step aside and soon we are leading the activities as we train them on the side to do as we do. To make matters worse, we justify that it is ok to employ much more drastic and violent approaches to disciplining the neighbor's kids than we do our own; and if the neighbor complains about our approaches we chastise them in front of their children and the rest of the neighbors as being a bad neighbor and lacking capacity to run their own family on their own.

Sounds ridiculous, but that is how we do "COIN." That is why I insist that COIN is domestic operation, and that when one supports someone else's COIN it must be called something else and also requires a doctrine that clearly lays out how one operates to ensure that distinction.

There are more layers, and each layer takes us farther away from being successful in helping others with their insurgencies. Insisting that insurgency is "war" when most are merely illegal politics; Insisting a government remain "uncoerced" when invariably evolution of governance is required to resolve the base disputes; etc.

We need to scrub the whole pile, and that begins with first getting real about what insurgency is and why it happens.

Bob

Bill C.

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 12:03pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

"Edward Luttwak, a military strategist who has served as a consultant to the Pentagon and the State Department, believes the United States is uncomfortable acknowledging the realities of war as a straightforward clash of will and force, and therefore has trouble setting narrow, concrete goals. On Iraq, for example, he thought the United States should have ended the war as soon as it removed Saddam. It was our need to fight for a loftier ideal of remaking the Arab world that got us in trouble. “That’s when the delusional memory of the Second World War intervenes,” said Luttwak, author of “On the Meaning of Victory: Essays on Strategy.” “We can’t just leave. We have to stay there and turn Iraqis into Swedes. And that’s when victory becomes meaningless.”

http://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2013/01/26/modern-warfare-what-does-vi…

Do you disagree here with Luttwak?

If the essence of war is -- as Luttwak seems to say -- a clash of wills and force; herein, the U.S. wishing to "turn Iraqis into Swedes" and the populations within Iraq (et al) having very different ideas as how they wish to order, organize and orient their lives,

Then could a residual force of 23,000, and a credible host nation counterpart -- via COIN -- turn the Iraqis (et al), against their will, into Swedes?" (This being an accurate reflection of our overall grand strategy re: outlying states and societies?)

Or should we say that such a mission requires more than COIN, realistically, can offer/bring about?

(This, especially in the face of the current Islamic revolutionary wave and without the benefit/support of colonialism.)

Is this a proper way to frame --and think about -- these questions?

thedrosophil

Wed, 12/03/2014 - 10:13pm

Bill C: I think I see where you're going with your argument, but I think it ultimately falls short of the mark. In essence, you're arguing that the American government has sort of improvised its own definitions of "strategy" and "strategic victory", and that while they're attuned to that definition, they've misunderstood the problem set, set unrealistic goals, and done a poor job of achieving goals that were ultimately unachievable. There are several problems with your understanding.

The first problem is that strategy is an established social science, with a history of vigorous peer review and a corpus of literature which forms various appendices around the discipline's fundamental document, <I>Vom Kriege</I>/<I>On War</I> by Carl von Clausewitz. "Strategy" and "strategic victory" are not simply things for which one can improvise new definitions. I know all of this because I hold an MSc (with distinction - the Scottish equivalent of summa cum laude) in Strategic Studies from a respected British university. I chose to attend that institution in large part because I've been unsatisfied with what I've seen coming out of comparable programs in America. As far as I'm concerned, the worst case is the Army War College, and I can give examples if you'd like more detail. At best, America teaches field grade and general officers campaigning, which is not strategy; the idea that American military education is "all Jomini and no Clausewitz" has been a point of contention for years. It's one thing for elected officials to be strategically illiterate, as they come from a variety of different professional backgrounds. It's quite another for American military officers to be illiterate, given that they are charged not only with the implementation of those civilian leaders' strategic vision, but with advising (and, dare I say, <I>leading</I>) those civilian leaders in the formulation of that strategic vision.

With respect to your proposed American definition of "strategic victory", it's not completely off, but I think you're confining yourself to only one aspect of the bigger picture. To offer one example, Saudi Arabia plays a huge role in Washington's strategic calculations, but I think any argument that the American government is trying to "Westernize" Saudi Arabia are flimsy at best.

So, with those qualifications in mind, I think that your defense of elected officials and flag/general officers as being highly attuned to their definition of "strategic victory" falls flat. At best, I think you could claim that flag/general officers have a general concept of what constitutes a successful campaign (operational level), and a handful of civilian leaders have a vague concept of what a strategic victory would look like. The evidence I've seen suggests that those flag/general officers rarely understand strategic (e.g. political) ends and how to consolidate operational accomplishments to achieve those ends; meanwhile, those civilian officials, at least recently, have a poor track record of marrying means (funding) and ways (methods) to ends.

You make a valid point about national leaders' unfamiliarity with foreign populations, but I think you give it too much credence. History is ripe with case studies in which one nation imposed its will upon another (in the Clausewitzian sense) using tactics, techniques, procedures, and operational concepts we would identify with counterinsurgency, rather than combined arms maneuver or other "regular" warfare methods. Intimate familiarity with the local populace on the part of the aggressor (for lack of a better term) has generally been a requirement for success, but equivalent familiarity on the part of civilian officials in the aggressor's capital has not. With respect to this statement...

<BLOCKQUOTE>COIN, however, would not seem to be an appropriate means/method/approach in those instances in which the populations were against us and our such initiatives, and where the force-feeding of our way of life, etc., to them, via COIN, simply adds a great deal more fuel to the resistance fires. (Our cases in-point today.)</BLOCKQUOTE>

... You're oversimplifying the issue by fixating far too closely on Afghanistan and Iraq, which we've already established to have been inadequate implementations of established COIN theory for reasons I've already covered. At the risk of sounding like twenty-first century Marxists, it's nonsensical to claim that COIN is a failure by citing two cases in which COIN wasn't seriously implemented. In fact, the list of cases in which an outside aggressor successfully "force-fed their way of life, etc., to them, via COIN" is long, though most people won't dare whisper most of the cases because they're associated with colonialism.

I agree with your assertion that a credible host nation counterpart is a requirement for success in modern counterinsurgency, and my colleague and I offered that as one of our requirements last July when SWJ published our article on the topic. I think that America had some opportunities on that note in both Afghanistan and Iraq, and nurtured them poorly. Again, the gold standard is the British government's training and mentoring of Sultan Qaboos and other Gulf monarchs. In fact, the Dhofar model, about which I've written previously, might appeal to you and challenge many of your assumptions: it involved a hostile populace; a gradual transition from primitive conditions to more modern economic, political, and social conditions; and a variety of other lessons which have been almost completely overlooked due to its coincidence with the Vietnam War. The bottom line, though, is that the credible host nation counterpart must be <I>credible</I>, which should not be confused with <I>popular from the outset</I>.

I can accept some of your points, but I don't agree that they add up to the sum that you're so fond of espousing. The ultimate result is that your observation about American forces staying longer in places like Iraq falls flat. Had that force of 23,000 that the military advisors (and SecDef-to-be Ashton Carter, for that matter) recommended in 2011 been allowed to stay in Iraq, I think the situation in Iraq and the region more generally would look dramatically different than it does today. To have done so would have been consistent with accepted COIN theory; instead, we're seeing COIN theory excoriated by strategically illiterate (and in many cases, safely retired) flag/general officers who didn't implement COIN theory or understand grand strategy in the first place. You'll excuse me if I continue to roll my eyes at such myopic hindsight.

Paul Kanninen

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 2:56pm

I agree with Bill C. COIN has been successful when the government of the country in conflict is seen by the population as being better than the alternative offered by the insurgent.

Neither Iraq or Afghanistan has an effective and representative government. Iraq has been ruled by strongmen. And Malaki's errors has further alienated the Sunni's and destroyed the effectiveness of the army. The question is how important is the area to US interests? How much money and lives do we want to spend? There is no doubt that we have the power to stabilize the situation but what end can we achieve.

Afghanistan is much the same. In my tour of duty corruption was deeply entrenched and most of the population in my AO lived in near starvation.
If the government cannot not improve the lot of the people, propping up the Afghan armed forces will not be a success.

It is not a simple task to change how a people are governed.

Government by a strongman does not prepare people for self government.

ataliaferro93

Tue, 12/02/2014 - 2:46pm

COIN as practiced by the United States the past decade will always fail to acheive a sustainable, strategic effect. Simple deductive logic concludes that to be a counter-insurgent, one must be sovereign to begin with or else what insurgents are you actually countering. In Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States quickly formed governments (culturally misaligned and out of step with the populace they were formed to govern) and gave sovereignty to these governments. The insurgency was always focused on the governments we formed -- not us. So, what counter-insurgency are we fighting exactly? As a number of British officers have told me, "you Americans are terrible colonialists." There are some instances of successful American support to Counter-Insurgency. 1950s Phillippine struggle against communist "Huk" insurgents comes to mind. In that case, the Phillippine Defense Secretary was willing to take the fight to the insurgents and the nation itself acknowledged and tried to deal with the symptoms that gave rise to insurgency in the first place. British governed Malay also comes to mind as a successful COIN effort -- but the Brits were sovereign in that case. Post 9/11 US COIN? I call it "watch the shiny coin of pretending to win hearts and minds," as we attempt to kill and capture our way to victory on behalf of a unwilling, corrupt partner that does not, will not, and cannot enjoy the support of its population as constructed (and more cynically, watch General Officers being created as our nation puts one general after another into the theater of operations in the most recent "penultimate year of the campaign."). At least in Afghanistan, perhaps there might be some hope with a new President that can (if he is willing) restructure government to be responsive to his people and make decisions without having to consult a 100,000 + US Army precense on his back (please don't argue NATO was in charge, American policy makers and officers were calling the shots that mattered). The United States sowed the wind in Iraq and then did the same thing in Afghanistan. As a result -- we reaped a whirlwind of wasted tax expenditures, many wounded and dead soldiers of our own, broken military families, and thousands and thousands of dead Iraqi and Afghan security forces and civilians. And to what effect -- to what end? If am being juvenille -- then I am proud of being juvenille. As a nation, we will probably always be bad colonialists because our populace will not accept American colonialism in an outright manner; therefore, COIN as a way of American war will always fail. Support to COIN will work when the partner is interested in COIN for themselves -- and I am pretty sure doctrine for that has been around for more than 50 years (see Foreign Internal Defense).

thedrosophil

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 6:07pm

In reply to by Bill M.

Bill M: It seems, then, that we have reached a point at which we are largely in agreement. I will admit to being fond of the "center of gravity" concept - into which I was heavily indoctrinated while studying alongside Marine Corps midshipmen during my undergraduate days - but I agree with your appraisal that its misuse dumbs the problems of war and warfare down to the lowest common denominator. In fact, I quickly learned that I would owe my success in that particular course sequence to my ability to regurgitate buzz words and apply them to the study of particular battles, which is great for teaching prospective second lieutenants to think about tactics and campaigning, but not as useful for establishing the mindset that eventually blossoms into a talent for strategy. As many before me have noted: "all Jomini, no Clausewitz".

Bill M.

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 11:12am

In reply to by thedrosophil

On a short break, and in general agreement, even with your last paragraph. My intent was to convey with modern war the prevailing character (not that it hasn't happened before) is more along the lines of ethnic instead of ideology. I think that portends that our ideological focus is misplaced in this type of fight. More to follow, and the only issue I have any of CvC's writings is the center of gravity concept that has greatly degraded our understanding of war and subsequent planning efforts where we attempt to dumb the problem down to one thing.

thedrosophil

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 10:05am

In reply to by Bill M.

Bill M.: Per your second paragraph, I would present several counterpoints. I agree that the approach in Afghanistan and Iraq has failed, but I would reiterate that I think the evidence suggests that they <I>why</I> of this failure points to two shortfalls: overly ambitious timelines for the "transformation" of the societies in question, and a failure to follow any actual doctrine. Your suppression vs. defeat observation is valid, but points back to the point I've made repeatedly: American leaders, both civil and military, lack the strategic understanding to capitalize on those tactical and operational successes - what you deem "suppression", and what others might call "the security necessary to facilitate medium- and long-term development" - and consolidate them into strategic success.

I understand your hypothesis that I subscribe to the Liberal theory of international relations, but you are incorrect, I am an avowed Realist. My observations reflect the view that it may be in the best interest of America and its allies to enact regime change and compel a change of national governmental system in some cases - for example, in Afghanistan and Iraq. I also disbelieve that democracy or self determination are endemic to Western civilization, and that's a belief that's supported by evidence: pre-Columbian American Indian tribes practiced various forms of democracy, as did the Omani Imamate prior to 1959, and so on and so forth. In other cases, such as the Gulf Emirates, I happen to think that their monarchies are, on balance (and acknowledging that it may be a slight balance), both fit to their people's purposes and complementary to Western interests. As I've stated elsewhere (and there's a lot of bruck spread about here, so I don't blame you if you've missed it), I think our timelines were far too ambitious, particularly in Afghanistan, and we should have followed the long play model that's still playing out nearly fifty years later in Oman. What you're describing is Democratic Peace Theory, and although I found it attractive in my early twenties, subsequent observation has disabused me of such notions.

I think we're in agreement that part of the problem is that U.S. policy and/or conduct doesn't reflect U.S. COIN doctrine, which is itself inconsistent with the corpus of accepted COIN doctrine espoused by the likes of Trinquier, Galula, Thompson, Callwell, and such. This statement...

<BLOCKQUOTE>I think an argument that our development efforts have been as disconnected from our political objectives as our military efforts.</BLOCKQUOTE>

... is accurate, and reflects my earlier observation that there is no concept of grand strategy to tie the disparate threads together into a semi-coherent picture. I also agree with your appraisal that MNF-I/ISAF has done little better than the French, which reiterates my view that American COIN doctrinal developers have been studying and emulating the wrong campaigns.

Regarding your observations about money, I'm not so convinced that money can't be used to a good effect - it worked in Dhofar, and I would argue that it worked as part of the surge in Iraq, by giving the agitators and malcontents a reason to cease and desist and, in so doing, providing the security necessary to begin the "hold" and "build" phases of the clear-hold-build sequence. That said, I think your observations about Karzai and Maliki are accurate: at the upper operational/lower strategic level, less cash and more accountability would have gone a long way. You're right on target that billion dollar development projects in insecure areas served little purpose. One particular example I'm fond of using is that of <A HREF="http://www.michaelyon-online.com/gobar-gas.htm‎">gobar gas</A>, which (as Michael Yon rightly notes in that article) could be revolutionizing Afghanistan right now. I've spoken to Nepalis about gobar gas, how simple and foolproof the systems are, and how relatively cheap. As with the provision of cheap radios to the Dhofaris in the 1970's, making the Afghans pay a fractional portion of a single system's cost would give them buy-in that ISAF hasn't been getting from the billions of dollars of, for lack of a better term, handouts. Instead, the international community has spent billions upon billions of dollars to little effect, with exceptionally poor accountability; Iraq was only marginally better in this regard. So, I thik we're largely in agreement on this issue as well.

I can't make that final leap with you with respect to the proposition that modern war has changed. When I look at modern war, even the post-Cold War conflicts, I see some return to old conditions, but I also see a lot of continuity. I see nothing to which Clausewitz's magnum opus doesn't apply, with an additional nod to Thucydides. Rather, I think the issue at hand, and I'm a broken record on this point, is that most Western civilian and military leaders don't actually understand <I>war</I>; instead, they're learning <I>warfare</I>, which is to say, tactics and operations/campaigning. Aside from a staggering alteration of the curriculum and completion standards for all training received by commissioned officers from commencement of their pre-commissioning training all the way through their war and staff college stints, I'm not sure how to remedy this. However, this issue obviously impacts more than just the prosecution of potential COIN operations, so it's worth exploring.

Bill M.

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 7:03am

In reply to by thedrosophil

To your first counterargument, the fact, not opinion, is that significant application of force has worked throughout history in suppressing insurgencies. Historically suppression has been more so than our "hearts and minds" approach. This disappoints me also, because it runs against my desire to do HAM in hopes it will work. I am not advocating using that level of force due to the associated moral issues that rightfully guide "our" behavior, but simply pointing out that we ignore or cherry pick from history. I tend to agree with Bob's comments that in those cases the insurgencies are suppressed, not defeated. That reflects an incomplete approach resulting in an uneasy status quo that isn't healthy. However, I am an advocate for applying more and sustained force (surgical as possible) against the insurgents to compel them to come to the negotiating table. After reading through your response you do not seem to be opposed to that.

In my opinion, our idealistic approach that Bush adapted is failing. It has failed in Iraq, and is failing in Afghanistan, despite the repeated claims by authors of how one unit won their war in their portion of Afghanistan. At best, they have effectively employed tactics to suppress the insurgency in their area for a period of time. Our approach is ahistorical, and we have not established a learning system that facilitates effective adaption at the operational/strategic level.

Your comments indicate you may embrace elements of the liberalist worldview (not implying your domestic politics, but your worldview: realist, liberal, constructivist, and their various subsets). In my opinion, this worldview is a faith based view of the world. Liberalists believe, like Bush, that people naturally desire democracy,free markets, and want to be integrated globally (how we ignore the major social and economic disruptions created by globalization still amazes me). In my view, we were (I think we're backing off from our extremes) democratic/free-market/globalizing missionaries in Afghanistan. We attempted to enforce our political religion on them by force, but it was insufficient force to change culture. We probably shouldn't be in the business of changing cultures, but that can be argued. We found that our beliefs/values don't always have the power of attraction we believed they do. Our morals rightly prohibit us from implying force at the level needed to force cultural change, so we're stuck in an uncomfortable place in the middle. All the while the people we aim to help continue to suffer.

I liked your use of cost effective development, and agree we can and should certainly do that as soon as the area is cleared (or sufficiently cleared of insurgents). Your quote from the Sultan was beautiful, but that doesn't represent U.S. COIN doctrine or more accurately U.S. policy. Spending billions to build unsustainable security forces modeling the west, and spending billions on major infrastructure projects in unsecure areas (that often didn't help the locals) is simply throwing away billions of dollars. I think an argument that our development efforts have been as disconnected from our political objectives as our military efforts. In my view, our failure is our desire to create a little us, instead of creating a stable them that can develop over time. You claimed the French failed because they employed a half-assed governance and development model, maybe, but I find it difficult to believe we did any better. We put thugs in the executive position in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and as numerous articles reported the CIA delivered millions of dollars to Karzai, and I suspect to Maliki. Money is power, so we empowered corrupt and illegitimate politicians to do what for us? That approach also seemed to be disconnected from our political aims.Apparently learning nothing from our missteps during the Cold War. Simply throw billions of dollars at a problem, no strategy, no thought, no real analysis required. Now we have three separate lines of effort conducting excellent tactical operations that are disconnected from our desired ends (military, CIA, and State/AID).

Finally, and this deserves more discussion, there are arguments that the character of Modern War has changed, in a political sense, from the Cold War era that our doctrine is based on. Overly simplified, the argument is that wars of ideology are less frequent. We're not seeing as many Maoist type models (politically) where the insurgents attempt to win the hearts and minds based on gaining buy in for their ideology. The West countered, usually ineffectively, with a hearts and minds approach (reflecting our current doctrine). Today, most insurgents leverage hatred (them and us) based on ethnicity. Instead of winning HAM, they kill, expel, suppress, those who are not in their ethnic group. I think we can agree we this in many parts of the world (not just in Muslim lands), and it is now the predominate character of war. Examples outside of the Sunni-Shia divide include Rwanda, tribal wars throughout Africa, what we saw in Bosnia, Lebanon, etc. I suggest we need to understand the character of the conflict. If it isn't ideological, and more about political power, then attempting to impose democracy in its purest form will equate to mob rule (Iraq). Attempting HAM won't be overly helpful. Our focus shifts to protection in the near term, but follows remains problematic. Instead of clear, hold, and build, it may be divide warring parties, and then...?

thedrosophil

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 11:39am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

Edit: I've already answered your "Gotcha!" questions, and done so repeatedly. For my trouble, you've ignored my responses and posted a continuous series of tedious, incoherent, and largely irrelevant screeds. I have better things to do than to keep rehashing the same arguments with you. Good day to you, sir.

Outlaw 09

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 12:42pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

I enjoyed your comment concerning what you assume are what I either implicitly or explicitly write---and you yet still do not get it.

If you had the opportunity to speak directly to the insurgent leader of the Islamic Army in Iraq and have read his hand written journal you would have seen and heard the following;

1. three weeks after we arrived in Baghdad we were being hit by RC IEDs designed by him--three weeks is what actually a short period to design deploy and test them is it not?
2. he and his Salafist group had been at war with Saddam and an underground war with death by hanging if caught--by the way since 1991 and when did we arrive in Baghdad--2003-----let's see 12 years before we got there?
3. he set up 15 cells alone in Baghdad and in 12 other major cities and towns within six weeks
4. he started actively ambushing and shooting at us within the fourth week after arrival
5. arms and funding had been flowing in via Basra since 1995---again when did we arrive?--again a total of 8 years before we arrived
6. all autos they used up through 2006 arrived as imports from the UAE over Basra and were never interdicted by the US

AND key--he had already been in deep contact with Ansar al Sunnah, and QJBR (AQI) BEFORE we arrived in 2003--contacts started in 1998/99.

AND he continues to fight next to ASA and IS--yes even now he has not broken with them--the core question you fail to repeatedly ask is---Why has he not broken with IS?

Answer that question and you will answer how to defeat IS--quite simple really and yet you fail to ask it.

Actually until you have had a deep discussion on the price of Iraqi produced sandals vs Chinese produced sandals with a deep business supporter of IS sitting in a major prison --ie the globalization question--you have not lived nor will you understand what you are currently seeing in Iraq and or Syria.

So just why do you honestly think COIN somehow was addressing a full blown phase two guerrilla war?

Even now you failed to address this exact issue that I have previously pointed out to you--COIN was never as practiced by the US Army designed to defeat and or win a guerrilla war--simply put it was just a regular good old "country building concept" down to the water, electricity, trash and sewage and jobs.

As defined by Mao---take out the Chinese villagers concept and slide in any other country ie Iraq---see how easy it is to both "see" and "understand".

Next, the transition to phase two, guerrilla warfare, armed struggle. In guerrilla warfare, attacks are carefully planned for heightened effect, but usually not for military purposes per se. Instead phase two revolutionaries are interested in using military force for political purposes. What or who is the first target? This is low-intensity warfare at this point so the target will likely be an individual or a small group, a police chief for example, or a village chief, or maybe even a province chief or council. Kidnapping and assassination are the tools of the trade, not so much because they want to get rid of that person but rather to make a resounding point. To what effect? To demonstrate to the populace that the insurgents can get to the enemy, that their force is a real factor to be respected. It also induces fear in the ranks. The first attacks may do little physical damage to the enemy, but psychologically, fears of possible mayhem just around the corner get stoked. Suddenly, formerly comfortable officials begin to fear for their safety. They may then pull their forces further inward for personal protection, which usually made the villagers happy.

If you had dealt at all with any of the Sunni insurgents face to face in Iraq--what you see described above by Mao is exactly what you say in Iraq tailored to Iraq.

To a degree is it the exact same pattern for IS before they shifted to a full phase three guerrilla war that we are currently seeing and yet you still somehow think COIN was what successful?

Again define for me and others here just what was the success again in COIN in Iraq? Well we got out of it so that must be a success right?

Any further questions?

Bill C.

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 12:51pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

My response -- re: thedrosophils thoughts here -- moved to the top of the page.

thedrosophil

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 9:26am

In reply to by Bill M.

Bill M: First and foremost, I disagree with this statement:

<BLOCKQUOTE>I believe most people mean the "new" U.S. COIN doctrine is a proven failure, when they say COIN is a proven failure.</BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect that there are some whose views reflect that statement, and (as I've noted elsewhere) I believe that such a statement is more granular and thus more accurate that the statement that "COIN is a proven failure". However, plenty of others - Outlaw 09, to name but one - have repeatedly savaged all COIN doctrine, and they maintain that the only way to succeed in such operations is to exert overwhelming force so that the local population submits following a total breakdown of will. Such suggestions are worthy of ridicule and opposition, as they enjoy no basis in historical precedent, and because adherence to such absurd notions promises to cost more unnecessary blood and treasure in subsequent conflicts than is absolutely necessary.

Second, and perhaps more importantly: you speak about a lot of these things - for example, aggressive operations versus development - as if they're mutually exclusive. They aren't. I point once again to the Dhofar Rebellion, though there are other examples. Did the Dhofar Brigade conduct aggressive combat operations? Yes. Did they perform interdiction raids and erect barriers to restrict the insurgents' freedom of maneuver? Yes. However, that was combined with a deliberate, cost-effective development campaign. The message was clear, and it was two-fold: "1) You, the local populace, have more to gain from supporting government forces than you do from supporting the insurgents; and 2) we will provide you with the necessary security to allow you to do so." And they did exactly that: improved the local populace's lives with targeted development, and provided the requisite security environment to allow for both development and popular cooperation with military forces. As my colleague noted in our joint submission to SWJ in July of 2013, the contrasting example is the French campaign in Algeria - which received a great deal more attention during recent campaigns than the Dhofar War - in which the French killed many insurgents and arguably won on a military level, but half-assed the development and governance piece, and ultimately lost the support of both the <I>Pieds Noir</I> and indigenous populace. Dhofar and the rest of Oman, which were more primitive in 1970 than Afghanistan is today, are now the jewel of Arabia and continue to be led by the same Sultan who ruled during the conflict in question. By contrast, the Algerian Revolution was a disaster for successive French governments, and Algeria itself is arguably worse off today than it was as a <I>department</I> of France.

A couple of years ago, SWJ hosted a paper entitled <A HREF="http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/moyar-3rdway_in_sangin_jul2011.pd… Third Way of COIN: Defeating the Taliban in Sangin</A>. The author, Dr. Mark Moyar, argued that the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment deployed to Sangin, Afghanistan in 2010/'11 employed "leader-centric COIN", as opposed to "population-centric COIN" or "enemy-centric COIN". I read the paper in its entirety and recognized that, no, the Marines had merely employed traditional COIN doctrine in lieu of the improvised American COIN doctrine seen in both the 2006 and 2014 editions of FM 3-24/MCWP 3.33-6.

I agree with much of the rest of your response. To some degree, I disagree with your appraisal of America's ability to transform other nations' values and systems of government, but I once again believe that the example of the Omani Renaissance ought to serve as the model. To quote Dhofar veteran, Brigadier Ian Gardiner, RM (Ret.):

<BLOCKQUOTE>[Sultan Qaboos] may not have been democratic but he was accountable in an indirect way. The lesson of what happens when you are not responsive to your people's needs had been taken fully on board. Sultan Qaboos was a benevolent autocrat who, with the freedom of action that his victory allowed him, has gently but surely advanced his country on a liberalising course towards more directly accountable government. We were not expecting instant democracy to emerge out of the victory on the jebel. But we knew that Qaboos would slowly ease things forward at its own pace.</BLOCKQUOTE>

From where I sit, there was a fantastic opportunity in immediate post-Taliban Afghanistan to bring the average Afghan into the eighteenth or nineteenth century, and to gradually advance them toward international norms over twenty or thirty years with an initial military commitment to ensure security, followed by a dwindling military commitment and a slowly increasing development agenda. A similar approach could have been taken in Iraq, which was already ready a twentieth century culture in 2003. Again, the Omani Renaissance - its initial approach, combined with the long game of preparing the populace for a more representative form of government - should be seen as the gold standard. For a variety of reasons, many of which boiled down to either international or American national reticence, these approaches were compromised, and combined with some fairly basic tactical and operational mistakes along the way which ultimately undermined the opportunity for a strategic victory. I also agree with your appraisal of the surge, though I might state it differently: I believe the surge succeeded because it combined both aggressive operations <I>and</I> a change in tactics/operational concepts in comparison to the 2003-late 2006 approach, combined with improved political maneuvering.

Aside from those thoughts, I think we're largely in agreement.

Outlaw 09

Wed, 12/10/2014 - 12:51pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

See thedrosophil---this interrogator that I previously quoted below learns and learns and learns for the rest of his life and he "gets" Iraq---that is what you are badly missing. The core article is over COIN "A failure or not" and I have constantly stated it failed and you constantly push back and push back.

This is from the NYTs Editorial today and it says a lot about the Iraqi "war of perception" which goes to the heart of why we "lost" COIN in Iraq.

Well worth the entire read in the NYTs as it is seven years after the previously quoted article and while he has moved on and is a Professor-he will remember Iraq for the rest of his life and I am guessing he will tell you COIN "failed" as well.

And I am betting his full story has yet to be said especially from Abu G in 2004.

I Can’t Be Forgiven for Abu Ghraib

The Torture Report Reminds Us of What America Was

By ERIC FAIR DEC. 9, 2014

BETHLEHEM, Pa. — I SPENT this semester teaching creative writing at Lehigh University. I’ve been a soldier, a police officer and an interrogator. So hearing students call me “Professor” and assigning homework was a significant change of pace.

But the course’s title, Writing War, kept me from straying too far from the memories that have haunted me over the last decade. I am grateful to Lehigh for the opportunity to teach the course. The school’s willingness to put a veteran in the classroom is the very thing this country needs to be doing in order to collectively process what the last 13 years of war have wrought. But teaching a class about war reminded me daily that I am no college professor.

I was an interrogator at Abu Ghraib. I tortured.

Abu Ghraib dominates every minute of every day for me. In early 2004, workers inside Abu Ghraib were scrambling to cover the murals of Saddam Hussein with a coat of yellowish paint. I accidentally leaned up against one of those walls. I still wear the black fleece jacket with the faded stain. I still smell the paint. I still hear the sounds. I still see the men we called detainees.

Last month, my students at Lehigh read “The Things They Carried” by Tim O’Brien. During class I talked about the things American soldiers carried in Iraq. I brought in a cigar box filled with the trinkets and mementos I had purchased from Iraqi vendors at Baghdad International Airport. I brought along the black fleece jacket.

When I asked the students to share their memories of the release in 2004 of the Abu Ghraib photographs showing the abuse of detainees, I received the sort of looks students give when they think they should know something and are too embarrassed to admit they don’t. Most avoided eye contact, some gave a sort of noncommittal nod, while others went for pure honesty and just yawned.

Outlaw 09

Wed, 12/10/2014 - 12:42pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Then my friend you have not fully understood one of the key reasons we and COIN failed in Iraq---which by the way I have often called a war of perception.

Your problem is you throw so much theory, academic readings, books,and quotes that you simply fail to both "see" and "understand"---until you do you will never progress. You would do well to fully understand the concept "seeing" and "understanding"--ie reality on the ground vs reality in books.

Remember people die from reality not books.

I knew this individual you did not thus you do no have any concept of the reality of Iraq thus the "war of perception."

You have never had an Iraqi insurgent look you in the eyes and say---"what if I do not say anything-- you will send me to Gitmo anyway right or to Abu Ghraib anyway"--that my friend is and was Iraq---so get out of the books and into the field.

You have never had to be a prosecutor, defense lawyer, jury, and judge and make decisions on individuals that had second and third or even fourth order of effects if you made one wrong decision.

You have absolutely no true knowledge of Iraq and yet you seriously think Iraq was a COIN success.

Would do yourself well to read the article and to think about it since the release yesterday of the CIA report.

AND then ask yourself how did that drive the insurgency against the US--and in that part of the world "perception matters".

An Iraq Interrogator's Nightmare

Network News

By Eric Fair
Friday, February 9, 2007

A man with no face stares at me from the corner of a room. He pleads for help, but I'm afraid to move. He begins to cry. It is a pitiful sound, and it sickens me. He screams, but as I awaken, I realize the screams are mine.

That dream, along with a host of other nightmares, has plagued me since my return from Iraq in the summer of 2004. Though the man in this particular nightmare has no face, I know who he is. I assisted in his interrogation at a detention facility in Fallujah. I was one of two civilian interrogators assigned to the division interrogation facility (DIF) of the 82nd Airborne Division. The man, whose name I've long since forgotten, was a suspected associate of Khamis Sirhan al-Muhammad, the Baath Party leader in Anbar province who had been captured two months earlier.

The lead interrogator at the DIF had given me specific instructions: I was to deprive the detainee of sleep during my 12-hour shift by opening his cell every hour, forcing him to stand in a corner and stripping him of his clothes. Three years later the tables have turned. It is rare that I sleep through the night without a visit from this man. His memory harasses me as I once harassed him.

Despite my best efforts, I cannot ignore the mistakes I made at the interrogation facility in Fallujah. I failed to disobey a meritless order, I failed to protect a prisoner in my custody, and I failed to uphold the standards of human decency. Instead, I intimidated, degraded and humiliated a man who could not defend himself. I compromised my values. I will never forgive myself.

American authorities continue to insist that the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib was an isolated incident in an otherwise well-run detention system. That insistence, however, stands in sharp contrast to my own experiences as an interrogator in Iraq. I watched as detainees were forced to stand naked all night, shivering in their cold cells and pleading with their captors for help. Others were subjected to long periods of isolation in pitch-black rooms. Food and sleep deprivation were common, along with a variety of physical abuse, including punching and kicking. Aggressive, and in many ways abusive, techniques were used daily in Iraq, all in the name of acquiring the intelligence necessary to bring an end to the insurgency. The violence raging there today is evidence that those tactics never worked. My memories are evidence that those tactics were terribly wrong.

While I was appalled by the conduct of my friends and colleagues, I lacked the courage to challenge the status quo. That was a failure of character and in many ways made me complicit in what went on. I'm ashamed of that failure, but as time passes, and as the memories of what I saw in Iraq continue to infect my every thought, I'm becoming more ashamed of my silence.

Some may suggest there is no reason to revive the story of abuse in Iraq. Rehashing such mistakes will only harm our country, they will say. But history suggests we should examine such missteps carefully. Oppressive prison environments have created some of the most determined opponents. The British learned that lesson from Napoleon, the French from Ho Chi Minh, Europe from Hitler. The world is learning that lesson again from Ayman al-Zawahiri. What will be the legacy of abusive prisons in Iraq?

We have failed to properly address the abuse of Iraqi detainees. Men like me have refused to tell our stories, and our leaders have refused to own up to the myriad mistakes that have been made. But if we fail to address this problem, there can be no hope of success in Iraq. Regardless of how many young Americans we send to war, or how many militia members we kill, or how many Iraqis we train, or how much money we spend on reconstruction, we will not escape the damage we have done to the people of Iraq in our prisons.

I am desperate to get on with my life and erase my memories of my experiences in Iraq. But those memories and experiences do not belong to me. They belong to history. If we're doomed to repeat the history we forget, what will be the consequences of the history we never knew? The citizens and the leadership of this country have an obligation to revisit what took place in the interrogation booths of Iraq, unpleasant as it may be. The story of Abu Ghraib isn't over. In many ways, we have yet to open the book.

thedrosophil

Wed, 12/10/2014 - 11:37am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

Outlaw 09: I'm not interested in discussing this with you anymore because you want to lecture, rather than having a dialogue. It's obvious that you're not actually reading my responses. Thank you for your time.

Outlaw 09

Wed, 12/10/2014 - 10:36am

In reply to by thedrosophil

And again you are not getting it---you started with the assumption did you not that COIN was evidently "successful"---having railed against the "sheer possibility" that in fact it is just the opposite--failure and you yet attempt to point to history.

I really do not care about history as guerrilla warfare is just what it is guerrilla warfare fought in a specific environment with specific populations over specific problems.

If we were so blooming successful in COIN in Iraq then why is it today that;

1. a QUDS General both advises and actually leads the entire Iraqi Army

2. Iran, Syria and Iraq signed an agreement "to increasingly fight IS together" trying to make Western troops deployment redundant. -Iran FM

3. In other words: Syria and Iraq agree to have more Iranian troops in their grounds and more Hezbollah in as well as well as rearming Hamas (which is basically a Sunni org is it not?.

4. and finally just where is the strategy?
This is how Obama treats his "friends" in Syria: “In November we received all kinds of support... This month support stopped completely,”

The IS in fact is boosting Iranian regional hegemonic aspirations--AND that is what you do not hear coming out of Washington.

Just how can it be?---in fact IS has a history of working with the Iranians and Assad and are now giving the Iranians perfect cover to fully enter into Iraq thus cementing what Khomeini called for in 1979--the establishment of the "Green Crescent".

Yet you somehow seem to forget the revolutionary nature of Shiaism introduced by Khomeini in 1979 along with it's most ardent supporters the QUDS.

This is in reference to the Sunni/Shia divide which we were by the way caught up in starting in 2007 with the Shia milita groups Mahdi Army, JAM and the Special groups and there were many times where it looked as we if were fighting de facto Iran---and that was not by the COIN.

Do no think for a moment the sinking oil prices were not targeted against two countries what have deep differences with the KS-Russia and Iran which has been ardent supporters of Assad.

Rouhani told a Cabinet meeting Wednesday that the fall in prices is at least partly "politically motivated," the result of a "conspiracy against the interests of the region, the Muslim people and the Muslim world." His comments reflect concerns among Saudi Arabia's rivals that the kingdom is capable of withstanding the revenue losses and is forcing lower oil prices to damage their economies.

"Iran and people of the region will not forget such conspiracies, or in other words, treachery against the interests of the Muslim world," he said.

Sunni Saudi Arabia and Shiite Iran are longtime rivals that are fiercely divided over the civil war in Syria, where Iran and Russia support President Bashar Assad while Saudi Arabia backs the mainly Sunni rebels fighting to topple him.

Robert C. Jones

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 6:31pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Those are fair, but deeply flawed assumptions.

But that's how life is. Often the guy in front of you isn't the real competition at all. Sometimes its that guy in your rearview mirror that you think is slow or on the wrong track that is getting ready to lap you.

Just pretend that others have something to offer as well, and you might pick up a thought or two that help you get to the next level.

knowing the writings of CvC and various COIN SMEs is just the ante in this game. Bill M. And Outlaw have been playing at the high stakes table for at least 80 years between the two. I'll argue, I'll disagree, I'll draw my own conclusions - but I always listen. I'm listening to you as well, but I stand by my position.

thedrosophil

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 5:24pm

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

1) Your comments suggest to me that you are not, in fact, familiar with Clausewitz's writings. On War, Book VIII, Section 6B discusses war's "logic and grammar", the "grammar" being generally thought to correlate to warfare - the methods by which we fight our wars - and the "logic" being generally thought to correlate to war itself. I suspect you would find yourself in the minority to describe counterinsurgency as falling outside the realm of Clausewitz's description of war.

2) You're entitled to your opinion about "our traditional Western fiction of what insurgency is", but you, like many others, seem dead set on ignoring the fact that there have, in fact, been historical examples in which a variety of COIN tactics, techniques, and procedures have been proven in the laboratory of armed conflict.

Robert C. Jones

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 2:11pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

Governments in general, and external parties in particular, have a hard time seeing insurgencies for what they are.

You can imagine if your own government, let alone some foreign government, came into your home, killed your spouse, issued you a new one deemed suitable by them; took away your home and job rendering you homeless; and then forced upon you a completely different belief system for how you raise your family so that you could do so in a manner deemed appropriate by this team of domestic and foreign governmental power.

How long would it take you to recognize the legitimacy of these changes?

How much money would it take to buy down your anger and get you to simply comply?

How many generations would your family tell and re-tell the story of these injustices and wait for a time when such a grievous wrong could be righted once again?

And if you multiplied this offense times millions of families across some society, how much security would it take to protect such an offending government from those they govern in such a way??

Insurgency is not typically war. It is something much deeper, much more personal, much more passionate. Revolutionary insurgency is to war as domestic violence is to boxing. To paraphrase Jesus, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" - likewise give unto Clausewitz that which is Clausewitz's. War belongs to CvC; but most insurgency does not. And when we apply war-logic to insurgency it invariably makes the problem worse. But this does not mean we can bribe populations abused in such a way with gifts of development and blankets and government beef.

We need to re-think the problem. But instead we all just keep arguing variations on solutions based on our traditional Western fiction of what insurgency is.

thedrosophil

Tue, 12/09/2014 - 8:39am

In reply to by Robert C. Jones

Robert: I would beg to differ on one item in particular. As I have argued, current American COIN doctrine has not actually been followed. Two examples.

1) FM 3-24/MCWP 3.33-6, 2006 edition, paragraph 8-13 says that COIN forces should avoid alienating the local populace by way of "unduly luxurious living". Claiming that anyone other than those posted to front echelon positions abides by this tenet would be absurd.

2) FM 3-24/MCWP 3.33-6, 2006 edition, paragraph 8-31 states: "In many cases 'good enough to meet standards' equipment that is indigenously sustainable is preferable to 'high-technology, best available' equipment that requires substantial foreign assistance for long-term maintenance." I'm not the only one in this discussion who has noted that ISAF and MNF-I have attempted to remake the Afghan and Iraqi security forces in their own image, with doctrine and equipment designed to serve international strategic needs, rather than serving international strategic needs by equipping Afghan and Iraqi forces to meet their own strategic needs.

I also tend to disagree with your appraisal of the situation on the Iraqi-Syrian border. I'm of the mind that if the international community actually made an effort to force Assad out, doing so would hamstring Iran and Russia in the process, making it easier for international influence - some of which would probably have to be armed force - to sort the situation out in the medium term. The problem is not that the Iraq campaign was a failure, though the power vacuum left by the 2011 withdrawal of international troops exacerbated the issue; rather, the problem is that the international community is so addicted to the idea that everything can be solved through negotiations, sanctions, and maybe a few low-risk air strikes, that they've divested themselves of the will and/or capacity to actually accomplish anything.

That said, I agree with your observation that "ANY governmental response to insurgency is some form of 'COIN' - certainly there is no requirement to apply the colonial-derived western tactics captured in US COIN doctrine for something to be COIN". The take-aways from that concept are two-fold: first, we must be more specific as to identify "COIN" as "population-centric COIN", at the risk of making the same mistake that I described previously in Dr. Moyar's study; and second, we should make the observation that I made when responding to Outlaw earlier this morning, that the Assad regime is currently proving, over and over again, that attrition-centric COIN doesn't work.

Robert C. Jones

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 10:50pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

I believe that we are most accurate when we recognize that ANY governmental response to insurgency is some form of "COIN" - certainly there is no requirement to apply the colonial-derived western tactics captured in US COIN doctrine for something to be COIN.

So yes, the government of Syria absolutely was conducting COIN, but now I believe that the proverbial cell has divided, and a new state has emerged from the ashes of Syria and Iraq that is now governed by ISIL, or Da'ish. Does not really matter what they call themselves or what we call them, it only matters that we understand them for what they actually are. To call them a "terrorist army" may be descriptively accurate of many of their tactics, but primarily serves to soothe our bruised egos and to blind us from the true situation before us. Any defeat of ISIL will serve primarily to turn the weak, emergent Sunni state back into a strong revolutionary Sunni insurgency. I don't think that is better for US interests in the region.

It was the failure of our COIN doctrine in dealing with the Sunni revolutionary insurgency that gave rise to the conditions that ISIL has exploited and leveraged to create the nascent state we see today.

thedrosophil

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 9:32am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

If you want to portray something as a COIN failure - which I suspect you're doing, but you're rather unclear - I'm pretty sure that you have to demonstrate that the events in question follow from insurgency in the first place. The Syrian government is certainly fighting an insurgency, but it's obviously not using any doctrine that anyone would recognize as "COIN" - they're just trying to obliterate tens of thousands of their own citizens. ISIS is not generally considered to be an "insurgency"; rather, it is a terrorist army, and the Kurdish militias fighting it are doing so in a fairly conventional fashion, with fairly conventional Western air strikes supporting it. Urban warfare and insurgency are not mutually inclusive. So, from where I sit, your portrayal of current events in Iraq and Syria as evidence of COIN's failure lack any actual relationship with COIN campaigns, COIN doctrine, or COIN theory.

Outlaw 09

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 9:20am

In reply to by thedrosophil

A great sign of COIN success---battle video released recently by JaN of a US Prep/Reaper flying near a Syria AF copter dropping barrel bombs and we are not de facto working with the Iranians who by the way supported a number of the Iraqi Shia militias who were killing/wounding us by the hundreds with EFPs.

And those Iranian F4s are not what bombing IS as well? --so do we now a joint group of the "willing" in the anti IS coalition?

First they kill us and then they support us- guess that could at least be a sign of a COIN success?

Or just another example of the enemy of my enemy is now my friend kind of thing.

But wait did not the Sec of State just this last week state it could take years to defeat the IS--but was not COIN so successful that we could leave Iraq?

thedrosophil

Mon, 12/08/2014 - 9:04am

In reply to by Bill M.

I'm updating my response, watch this space.

Bill M.

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 6:53am

In reply to by thedrosophil

I believe most people mean the "new" U.S. COIN doctrine is a proven failure, when they say COIN is a proven failure. Strategically I agree with the statement, tactically our doctrine is a mixed bag. I'm a critic of our COIN approach because it subordinates value of aggressive, yet surgical, counter guerrilla/insurgent operations to development. I can't think of any case in history where this approach has worked. If we look at historic cases where foreigners engaged in COIN vice FID and won, the insurgents were suppressed by repeated combat operations. Permanent solution? Of course not, but permanent solutions, assuming they are even feasible can only be pursued once the insurgency is suppressed. Hearts and minds weren't won by building schools and other photo op events. They were won by clearly demonstrating what side would win, and whose side it would be in their interest to align with. We have allowed excessive liberalism to seep into our strategy and doctrine, which is why I label our COIN doctrine a faith based doctrine. We assume democracy and our vision of freedom is a natural law that applies to all cultures.

The combat and intelligence tactics in the COIN doctrine are not bad, so don't toss the baby out with the bathwater. Our biggest shortcomings, as you pointed out, are at the strategic level where our leaders have developed idealistic versus realistic objectives. Our objectives were not only unobtainable, they were confrontational with the people we alleged intended to help. Several articles and books have been written our failure to understand, so no need to revisit that here. At the operational level we failed by focusing on soft power instead of hard power (this changed with the surge, we conducted aggressive combat operations under the guise of a humanitarian approach that created a window for the Shia to assume control of the government, brilliant!). We attempted a soft power approach based on our idealistic strategic assumptions that everyone in the world wants to be like us, and that failed.

You make a point I agree with, but I think your response is too narrow. Collin Gray's quote is appropriate, and should probably be on SWJ's homepage as a reminder of this reality. However, irregular warfare is not limited to insurgency and counterinsurgency. In most parts of the world throughout history we have conducted FID (not just to counter insurgencies)and CT to pursue our objectives instead of ousting governments and then conducting COIN against the forces who oppose our radical social and political transformation efforts. We will do COIN again, but not Nagel's COIN consisting of parking a large military force in country X for 20 years to transform a society to achieve a very limited strategic objective. Meanwhile losing our ability to respond to more important strategic challenges in the rest of the world. Our current strategic and doctrinal approach is not sustainable, therefore it is not realistic. On the other hand, we have the choice to scope our objectives in a way that are not confrontational to the locals. We can achieve something along the lines of a win-win by choosing not to impose our way of life on them, and conducting more aggressive counter guerrilla operations so the insurgents are sufficiently pressured to come to the negotiating table. It will take time, but it won't take decades of effort. It takes decades of effort to transform a society, it does not take decades to defeat or sufficiently suppress an insurgency.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 9:41am

In reply to by thedrosophil

Then read this and "fully understand" the IS as evidently you would have if you had "understood" AQI.

By understanding AQI and now IS you would have "understood" that the COIN "practiced" by the US Army in Iraq did not even dent them.

Read thoroughly as it is probably one of the best profiles currently out there on the IS by anyone.

Thus again the core question where is the success if the Iraq ISF/government simply crashed when IS attacked?

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports2/2014/12/profiling-islamic-st…?

thedrosophil

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 8:00am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

Your scathing denunciations would carry more weight if you'd bothered to respond to any of the points that I've raised in any of the comments that I've posted. Good day to you, sir.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 6:55am

In reply to by thedrosophil

Small comment---no one has "valuable time" in a normal life span---either you learn and grow or not and time helps that process. Your remark sounds more like not wanting to answer simple questions placed to you.

By the way here in this country it would be viewed as being trapped in a debate corner and wanting to run from the debate.

If one has an opinion defend it or learn and modify it--never run from it. Standing still is indeed a killer "of valuable time".

Secondly, read other commenters from other threads and expand your horizons-- therein lies your problem.

PLUS you never did respond to what is actually the actual success in Iraq of COIN? What two years of no IS attacks qualifies now as "success"---come on.

I could find two years of "of peace and quiet" with the IRA in northern Ireland but did/does that constitute "success"? I could find "two years of somewhat peace" in Grozny but is that "success"? We had once several years of moderate "peace and quiet" in AFG--but we blew that and it was not a success.

See the major difference between our comments lies in the fact that I have participated in four wars most of them irregular, participated in the Son Tay raid, survived Beirut in the early 80s, survived Black Sept in Jordan in 70,and a number of things that some cannot/will never talk about, and I reside six car hours from Kyiv and have dueled with the MfS/GDR and KGB in Berlin for over 20 years and have resided extensively in three European countries in the length of my "valuable time" so I tend to both "see and understand". And along the way earned a MA and a Ph.D ---foreign languages tends to do that.

AND yet commenters like Bill M, Robert and yes even Bill C and Madhu tend to get my attention and I duel with a Russia FSB blogger/commenter here mirhond which has been most interesting--it is all about listening and in some cases learning.

Do not think Bill M will mind me cutting and pasting this concerning your comments on how well you seem to think COIN has been working--take the time to read it--might help expand your thoughts.

QUOTE:

Buzzwords are part of the evolution of understanding the evolution of the character of war. They become gestalts for more complex concepts of what practitioners and theorists think they're seeing that is new, at least new to the observer (agree there is little new in reality). The buzz words/phrases should be debated, hopefully rigorously, to see if they adequately explain what is new, or what we think is new. Ultimately to see if keeping them is value added or a distraction.

COIN doctrine is the most recent failure in doctrine development based on buzz words and phrases. We defaulted to British and French practices based on their alleged ability to adapt/learn better than we did during the Vietnam War. A deeply flawed argument that falls apart when held up to a mirror. It was our blind faith in this unproven doctrine that preventing us from adapting/learning in Afghanistan and Iraq that proved unproductive. The shallowest concepts were wrapped in a pseudo-intellectual guise that sounded logical (give them jobs and they won't fight, it is all about economic development, hearts and minds, democratic governance leads to peace, etc.). Embracing false concepts, while ignoring the realities of warfare.

COIN doctrine proved to be little more than a basket of buzz phrases. Unfortunately, we are now facing an excessive backlash to COIN that is similar to what we faced post-Vietnam. Our approach to COIN was deeply flawed and unsustainable, BUT the reality is irregular warfare will continue (not limited to insurgency as some seem to think based on our narrow focus over the past 10 years), so now is not the time to reject, but for deep thinking about irregular warfare and how to conduct or counter it effectively to pursue our national interests.

First, we have to free ourselves from concepts that have failed. If that means coming up with new buzzwords to facilitate a needed paradigm shift I'm all for it. Those new ideas should be challenged, and if they don't survive the light of day dismiss them. Notably Jackson didn't provide any arguments to discredit the new concepts/buzz phrases beyond the trite warfare has always been complex. Yes it has, and the markets always cycles, it goes up and down, which is another truism that provides little practical knowledge to practitioners.

UNQUOTE:

thedrosophil

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 6:10am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

I skimmed your response. It's full of more diatribe about Russia and Ukraine, so I'm not going to bother reading it. Sorry, if you can't stay on topic and provide relevant, cogent responses, I'm not going to waste my valuable time engaging with you.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 6:09am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

AND by the way ---there are no radical islamists in the Russian Federation?
If there were they seem to not be following COIN.

http://news.yahoo.com/reports-gun-battle-breaks-chechen-capital-0107479…

#Grozny #Map
Fighting around the #Press_Building over (orange)
Siege of #School_20 continues (red)
pic.twitter.com/fONk2XQKji

Grozny today. The special operation goes on. Locals talk about hundreds of insurgents occupying the city
pic.twitter.com/WZluA2Gc7e

Secondly,---why the interest in the Crimea and Ukraine was a comment of yours---you do realize that with the take over and subsequent pressure being applied to the Crimea Tartars--over 14 kidnapped and either found dead and or simply "disappeared" since the annexation AND that after Putin declared them to be a "protected people"--- Russia is in fact "radicalizing" a Muslim population that will at some point rise up in ways that the RF will not like.

Thirdly, check the current and past Russian relationships with Assad, Hezbollah, and the Iranians and tell me there is no connections and yet you dismiss the Ukraine.

The world is far more interconnected than you are willing to entertain.

And COIN is and was never the answer.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 4:47am

In reply to by Outlaw 09

If we continue this dialogue then ask one's self out of all the BCT, Division, Corp and MNF-I campaign plans from 2003 to 2010 what were the main LOEs?

Usually centered around statements concerning, water, sewage, jobs/business development, fuel, electricity, local security AND then these two famous ones 1) good governance and or simply governance and 2) rule of law.

If one looked at say the BCT/Div campaign plans starting in 2005 through to the end--they never really changed much---they just accepted the previous unit's plan and continued to march without much thought in order to hand it off to another BCT/Div and go home. There was though always a little difference---how else would a Commander get promoted if he did not show "COIN" progress. Remember the BCT was the stepping stone to one star if one had a "successful tour"---there was no "failures in COIN" during a tour.

What I have often called that here a "checklist mentality" which in fact your "COIN" was by 2008.

NOW if one takes the 300K or so ISF and Iraqi Army we trained and left behind also working on their own campaign plans as that is what we taught them they should be doing for "COIN". We have what? "COIN"?

THEN define why COIN was a success?

In light of the fact that the Iraqi's totally collapsed when IS attacked them with far less numbers and having no "campaign plan" --AND surprisingly yes the IS has always had campaign plans even when they were AQI and actual named campaigns which they actually executed and evaled afterwards, BUT did we the US military ever really pay attention to them other than wiping it from the table by defining it as "propaganda".

Seems that in fact it was not "propaganda'.

And given all of the above---"COIN" was it a "roaring success" or simply a failure that we saw coming and never wanted to admit to ourselves?

Remember tons of OCO money was at stake so it had to be a "success" or we had to have "success" to justify to the American population the loss of life in the form of KIA/WIAs and now exploding VA costs.

Outlaw 09

Thu, 12/04/2014 - 1:00am

In reply to by thedrosophil

See this is exactly WHY the concept of COIN is in fact totally dead and long buried---just many have not quiet yet figured it out to include you and your own comments here.

I will give you just one single simple question that will confirm the above and I know you cannot answer it--and this is the question;

In 2003, just three weeks after we arrived in Baghdad and toppled that famous statue we were in fact already in a Phase Two guerrilla war as defined by Mao's definitions used in guerrilla warfare.

So if we were already in a full phase two guerrilla war THEN why were we running around for the next eight years chasing the tail called "COIN".

If we were then chasing our tail called "COIN" just why then did we the IC, the Army and the entire Army training system fully "miss" a hand written journal by the leader of the Islamic Army in Iraq?--WHO by the way is still fighting next to and with the current IS.

AND if you had gone to the blog "Musings on Iraq" which also has a thread here in SWJ you would have noticed I wrote recently about that hand written journal an article on Mashandani the leader of the IAI and if you were in Iraq I am sure you "met" his designed RC IEDs if you drove the roads and off roads.

AND by the way I spent hours with him at Abu G and yet the entire IC would not provide technical assistance to prove he was the IAI leader--it was as if they wanted him to walk which I still maintain was in fact the case mush as we allowed al Baghdadi to eventually walk out of Bucca.

If we the IC, the Army, and the Army training command had in fact taken the time to "fully and completely understand" what we were in fact "seeing" the end results might have been different from us having to now send back in 3000 none boots on the ground and bombers at 12000 feet.

SO now that you have failed to answer the question CHECK the Ukraine events---there you will see what authors here call "hybrid warfare" and have used that term with the current IS in an article of theirs.

NOW go to the comments by Robert that you evidently just skimmed over and see that what we now "call hybrid" has been in fact there since our own Revolutionary War--NOW if that is the case just WHAT is so "new".

WHY the Ukraine---again if you had taken the time to "fully understand" what you are seeing there daily you would see the connections between the IS and the Russians JUST as Robert wrote about.

Will give you a perfect example--if say the oil revenue is one of the many single points of failure of the IS then why has the US not shut down their oil income-as one of their revenue cash flows- we will not out of fear of rocking the Turkish boat.

BUT if one looks now at the Ukraine---the EU is just about ready to pull the "financial nuclear trigger" cutting Russia off from SWIFT driven by the Germans NOT the US.

so when you criticize me for not understanding "COIN" or coming "off topic" --I have been at it far far longer than you ever have and have "talked" with far far more "jihadi's face to face asking the same exact question I posed to you earlier, and I am willing to "talk truth to power".

You really do need to expand your world views.

Are you?

By the way this is what a "financial nuclear first strike" looks like and where is it when we are dealing with the IS oil revenues?

AND it comes from the current Ukrainian events not the IS--and by the way since Robert mentions that most of the wars being fought all have the same signature pattern you need to also be commenting on the Ukrainian threads to include the finance and information threads as IS drives a hardcore information war with us.

#Panic in #Moscow- #Putin in #Kremlin.
Russian banks threaten war if cut from #SWIFT.
Reason: #Russia SWIFT cut imminent.

My opinion: #EU/#Merkel want #SWIFT cut rumors to spread like wildfire to crash #Russia ruble/stocks & show #Putin how weak his hand is.

Notice the EU is ready to use the "nuclear trigger" and where is the US with the IS?

Bill C.

Wed, 12/03/2014 - 12:43pm

In reply to by thedrosophil

thedrosophil:

The United States, I believe, defines "strategic victory" as the transformation of outlying states and societies more along modern western political, economic and social lines; this, allowing the United States to gain greater (direct and/or indirect) power, influence and control over -- and greater utilization of -- the human and other resources contained within these outlying states and societies.

Thus might we say -- and in seeming contrast to your thoughts above -- that both our elected officials, and indeed our flag/general officers, were/are all highly cognizant of, and all highly attuned to, what "strategic victory" means?

What these folks would not seem to be highly cognizant of -- and/or highly attuned to -- is/are the very different wants, needs and desires of the populations of these outlying states and societies.

Thus, while our national leaders may be VERY FAMILIAR with their own strategic goals and objectives (to wit: they may "know" themselves), they would not seem to "know" the enemy (the contrary populations that they seek to transform, incorporate, manipulate and utilize).

COIN being an appropriate response when the United States -- and these populations -- see things eye-to-eye, to wit:

a. "We" want to liberate them from their oppressive regimes; transform them along modern western political, economic and social lines; and incorporate them into the "international community"/"global economy."

b. And "they" want this exact same thing.

COIN, however, would not seem to be an appropriate means/method/approach in those instances in which the populations were against us and our such initiatives, and where the force-feeding of our way of life, etc., to them, via COIN, simply adds a great deal more fuel to the resistance fires. (Our cases in-point today.)

Thus, the error made by our national leaders in the past decade having much less to do with any alleged lack of understanding, on their part, of what strategic victory means -- and much more to do with our national leaders failing to "know" and understand the "human terrain" and, thereby, failing to "know" the enemy (not the friend in these instances) that resides therein?

Bottom Line:

a. COIN would seem to have good applicability in those cases where the U.S., and the populations of certain outlying states and societies, have common goals and strategic objectives.

b. In other cases, and as we have learned in the past decade, COIN would seem to be (1) a waste of time, lives and money and be (2) more likely to produce counterproductive, rather than productive (from a strategic point of view), results.

(Our military forces staying longer in places like Iraq? This would not, I believe, change the basic dynamics that I have outlined above.)